#89 - Trump’s 2.0, Regenified’s New Consumer Research, & Big Recent Wins For Regenerative Brands

[00:00:12] Welcome to the Regen Brands Podcast. This is a place for brands, retailers, investors, and other food system stakeholders to learn about the consumer brands supporting regenerative agriculture and how they're changing the world. This is your host Kyle, joined by my co-host AC, who's going to take us into the episode.

[00:00:33] In this episode, we're bringing you into the new year with a first of its kind format, covering current events, new consumer research, and industry news.

[00:00:42] Kyle and I spend time talking about Trump winning the presidency and what that means for regenerative brands and the regenerative movement.

[00:00:49] How will tariffs affect cost of goods? Will mass deportations affect labor and cost of goods? Is MAHA for real, and what impact will it have?

[00:00:57] Will the new administration fulfill their promises on inflation and the economy, resulting in higher velocities of premium regen products and more investment into regenerative brands?

[00:01:07] We chat about the cultural implications from the election and how we think that will affect where regen goes over the next four years and the overall consumer sentiment.

[00:01:16] How will all this anti-establishment energy affect change? What does the rejection of woke ideology mean for brands marketing the sustainability benefits of regenerative products?

[00:01:25] We cover Regenified's recently released consumer report that highlights high interest in regenerative agriculture and growth opportunities for brands and retailers.

[00:01:34] What can we learn from the findings of this 850-person study?

[00:01:38] Regenified's key findings highlighted rising consumer awareness and interest in regenerative agriculture, the criticality of certifications, consumers prioritizing health and nutrient density, and consumer willingness to pay a premium for regenerative products.

[00:01:52] We unpack it all and share our perspectives.

[00:01:56] We share some big news from brands like Painterland Sisters, Long Table, Recoup, Little Sesame, and Distal Family Ranch, covering new products and retailer partnerships, big industry pitch slam wins, and new nutrient density analysis.

[00:02:10] Lastly, Kyle and I share some of the regenerative products we're gifting to friends and family this holiday season.

[00:02:17] We're pumped to bring you this new format and excited to do more episodes like it in 2025.

[00:02:22] So let us know what you think and want to hear us chat about next.

[00:02:25] Let's dive in.

[00:02:28] What's up, everybody?

[00:02:29] Welcome back to another episode of the Regen Brands podcast.

[00:02:33] What's up, brother?

[00:02:34] Just me and you today.

[00:02:35] How you doing?

[00:02:35] Just me and you today, man.

[00:02:36] Take two, you know?

[00:02:38] This should be interesting.

[00:02:39] It should be fun.

[00:02:40] We've never done a pod like this before, and I think it's super contemporary.

[00:02:43] I think it's a great way to kick off 2025.

[00:02:46] So this should be really interesting.

[00:02:50] So lead us to water, man.

[00:02:51] What are we talking about today?

[00:02:53] Yeah.

[00:02:54] So I guess just a broad overview for the audience before we dive completely in is just we're going to talk about more like current events, recent news, things that are going on that we have perspectives on.

[00:03:05] So one is the administration change with the Trump White House coming in.

[00:03:08] And there's some other kind of new consumer awareness and demand data, specifically as it relates to Regen and then kind of the overall market as well.

[00:03:17] And we're going to talk about some recent kind of Regen Brands news and some other fun stuff.

[00:03:20] So should be a cool change of pace and excited to see what people think about it.

[00:03:25] No doubt.

[00:03:26] And I think, you know, worth saying that we're not here necessarily advocating for one party or another.

[00:03:29] But the truth is there's a new administration coming in and that's going to significantly affect our food policy more than previous administrations that I can remember.

[00:03:38] That might not be totally accurate like ever, but this seems like food, health, well-being is sort of like higher up the docket than it has been previously, at least in my lifetime.

[00:03:48] So we're excited about some of the potential benefits coming to the food system with this new administration coming in.

[00:03:54] Yeah.

[00:03:54] And huge shout out to the Regen Brands coalition members.

[00:03:57] I mean, I think we've shared on this call, we have a couple of monthly calls with that group.

[00:04:02] One is sales and marketing focused and one is ops and finance focused.

[00:04:07] And the most recent ops and finance call, the group really dug in to just sharing what they think is going to happen with this new administration, how it's going to affect their businesses.

[00:04:15] It was a completely apolitical, non-political conversation.

[00:04:19] And it was all about like, how do we really think this is going to affect our businesses and our overall movement?

[00:04:24] And how can we work together to either take advantage of new opportunities or overcome challenges?

[00:04:29] And just super cool.

[00:04:30] I was super just proud to like be a part of that conversation.

[00:04:33] And it, you know, sparked, I think the idea for you and I to lay some of that down and relay that to some of our audience.

[00:04:38] And so we will, we will start there.

[00:04:41] And like Kyle said, this is not designed to be a political conversation.

[00:04:43] We're just trying to share information and perspective that we have that might be helpful for people to know.

[00:04:48] No doubt.

[00:04:49] And unfortunately I missed that call, the office finance call.

[00:04:53] But I am curious, I don't know if we want to start with that now, but like what were some of the high level takeaways?

[00:04:57] What was some of the most interesting things that those businesses shared with you that really kind of resonated and maybe hadn't been on your radar prior to that conversation?

[00:05:04] Yeah, the first thing we talked about, which we're going to talk about today, which we can just start with was tariffs.

[00:05:11] I mean, we know this guy has said he's going to put some monster tariffs out there.

[00:05:16] I think the biggest cause for concern amongst the group is anyone who's bringing in really packaging from China or any sort of like non-food ingredient from China.

[00:05:28] You know, there was a brand that shared an example of the last Trump term.

[00:05:32] They were buying a jar that cost a dollar and it went up to four dollars and some change.

[00:05:38] So just such a significant, you know, packaging increase.

[00:05:41] Like if you're not ready for that, if you're not prepared for that, if you can't eat that margin in your cost of goods, if you can't find a domestic supplier to replace that, like that is a significant issue in your unit economics.

[00:05:52] No doubt.

[00:05:52] You know, I'll add to that, that manufacturing is going to be significantly affected by this as well.

[00:05:59] You know, I Kettle and Fire, we're ordering some manufacturing equipment from overseas and we're making sure that we order it before the year is over because we don't want to have to pay a higher tariff than we already have to today.

[00:06:10] Right.

[00:06:11] And that's not just going to be a Kettle and Fire issue.

[00:06:12] That's going to be across the board.

[00:06:15] A lot of the manufacturing equipment that, you know, might be here on U.S. soil is manufactured elsewhere.

[00:06:21] Um, so those additional costs could creep in from other places as well and affect margin or could lead to some additional price increases.

[00:06:30] So it's just, um, it's going to be interesting to see how that all plays out, you know?

[00:06:33] Yeah.

[00:06:34] Yeah.

[00:06:34] And I think there's like a, uh, there's like two parallel paths to, to follow here.

[00:06:39] One's like a food ingredient.

[00:06:41] Like how does it affect food ingredients?

[00:06:42] And the other is like, how does it affect everything else?

[00:06:44] And I think it's going to have more of an effect on the everything else, which is manufacturing equipment, packaging, you know, hard stuff that's coming from these countries where Trump wants to be a worse trade partner with.

[00:06:56] Uh, but on the other side with the food ingredient side, I'm really interested to see how it affects like a lot of our brands that are sourcing from the global South, um, or from Canada or from Mexico with NAFTA and kind of his criticism of NAFTA.

[00:07:10] Um, he's already threatened.

[00:07:12] I think Canada was some big tariffs.

[00:07:13] So, um, you know, like all the rock oats come from Canada.

[00:07:18] Will that, will that affect this?

[00:07:19] Like, I don't know.

[00:07:20] So, um, the group, I think the group was most concerned about packaging though, and really the, the two big takeaways or kind of action items were work together to find domestic suppliers now and try and get in the queue.

[00:07:33] Because if you're the 20th brand that reaches out, once the tariffs have been in place for two months, you're kind of SOL and you're going to get, you know, probably screwed on price, but also maybe never even get a chance to do business with them or get orders on the water.

[00:07:47] Um, and really stockpile kind of, uh, inventory on, on some key items.

[00:07:51] Right.

[00:07:52] Which, you know, significant cashflow hit, which as we've already talked about, it makes, uh, being a region brand or any brand even harder these days.

[00:07:59] One of the other things that this isn't necessarily specific to region, but it's worth mentioning.

[00:08:03] I attended a, um, a webinar that spins naturally Chicago and K he put on earlier this week.

[00:08:09] And they were talking about the appetite for global flavors over the last, you know, maybe three to five years is just skyrocketing.

[00:08:17] And ironically with global flavors, a lot of these ingredients to your point is here coming from overseas.

[00:08:22] Um, and there have been specific like initiatives to make certain categories and or aisles more global.

[00:08:30] And I'm wondering if this is going to increase all the pricing on all of those items as well.

[00:08:34] You know, it's just going to be a really interesting time.

[00:08:37] I'm sure there's already people like setting up some protocols for like how they're going to measure the impact of these tariffs.

[00:08:41] Um, and it's going to be interesting to see what that data yields.

[00:08:45] Yeah.

[00:08:46] And it's, it's interesting to think about the big reason he got elected was inflation and people think he's going to bring down inflation and lower grocery prices.

[00:08:54] So you would hope they're going to put a tariff program together that affects food less than maybe energy or some of these, uh, other kind of hard, good manufactured stuff overseas.

[00:09:06] So I don't know if that's just me being an optimist, but I think there's a good reason to, to like hope that that will be the case.

[00:09:13] Um, and ultimately if, if the administration's using a common sense approach, like there's just a shit ton of stuff we can't grow here.

[00:09:20] So why are we going to make that more expensive for the American consumer?

[00:09:23] Like we're never going to grow coffee here.

[00:09:25] We're never going to grow cacao here.

[00:09:26] So is putting tariffs on those regions and those products like really effective?

[00:09:31] Like I would say, no, this is, you know, me and you don't have a level of expertise maybe to even weigh in on the topic, but my simple common sense assessment would tell me that would be a mistake, especially given that being a big driver of his election.

[00:09:45] Totally agree, man.

[00:09:46] And hopefully we do figure out how to do that.

[00:09:48] The tariffs do seem counterintuitive, right?

[00:09:50] Um, but maybe there's some other levers we don't know about.

[00:09:52] I just did a quick like chat GPT to see like how much of the food consumed in the United States has actually grown in the United States just for fun.

[00:09:59] Yeah.

[00:09:59] And again, this is like a chat GPT, like who knows if it's real or not, but it's probably directionally somewhat accurate.

[00:10:05] Um, us imports about one third of its vegetable supply and two thirds of its fruit supply pops up immediately.

[00:10:11] And that's just kind of like, okay, this, this is going to have some consequence.

[00:10:14] Um, we'll see how it all plays out.

[00:10:17] Yeah.

[00:10:18] And being a guy that used to buy a lot of those fruits and vegetables and sell them.

[00:10:21] Um, you know, I don't remember ever having to have a real leadership conversation about tariffs or things like this.

[00:10:29] And I was in that role during the first Trump term.

[00:10:31] So that's another reason why I'm hopeful it's not going to affect food as much, but we truly don't know.

[00:10:36] And the other thing to think about here is like, he could just be using it as a negotiating tactic and it might never, might never see the light of day.

[00:10:43] Or it might be him saying, we're going to put a hundred percent tariff on something.

[00:10:46] It ends up being 10% because he gets what he wants or they get what they want in some other perspective.

[00:10:50] So yeah, tariffs will be interesting to watch.

[00:10:53] Um, and I think we'll have some clarity there very soon after this episode drops because inauguration day is going to be two or three weeks after this one comes out.

[00:11:01] So we'll see.

[00:11:02] Yeah, no doubt.

[00:11:03] So we just spent a pretty significant amount of time on tariffs.

[00:11:06] Let's pivot to point two, which is deportations and how that could affect labor and COGS, you know, specifically in the ag sector.

[00:11:12] Like there's so much immigrant labor, um, both legal and illegal.

[00:11:16] Let's acknowledge, you know, what is really happening in our country.

[00:11:19] And yeah, I think this is going to be another thing that could potentially increase pricing.

[00:11:23] So what was some of the takeaways in the conversations you all had in that office finance call?

[00:11:28] We didn't talk about this one as much, but I've seen a lot of information coming into my inbox.

[00:11:32] From people that I really trust, various individuals, nonprofits, et cetera, on this one.

[00:11:36] And the common sense one there too, is like the vast majority of farm workers in this country are not American.

[00:11:42] And a lot of them are illegal or undocumented.

[00:11:45] Um, and so if you're going to deport those people, you're going to have a labor shortage.

[00:11:50] So it's going to have the short-term cost increase of just, there's people not there to do the job.

[00:11:54] And then potentially you're gonna have to pay someone else more, which I think advocates for it would say, that's great because we're going to have Americans doing those jobs.

[00:12:01] And they're going to make livable wages or even the, the immigrants or illegal immigrants might get paid more because we're kind of cracking down on it, which I see that side of it.

[00:12:10] But I don't see any solution.

[00:12:13] I'm not saying I'm, I'm for against it or I have some super crystal ball into the long-term ROI.

[00:12:18] But if we're going to deport labor and or increase the cost of labor, that's going to have some sort of short-term increase on, on costs.

[00:12:26] Like, I think that's just pretty, pretty basic economics.

[00:12:30] Yeah, I agree.

[00:12:30] And this is not at all like my wheelhouse or my area of expertise.

[00:12:33] So I just want to acknowledge that before sharing my opinion, but I agree with everything you just said, that it feels like there's going to be some short-term consequences here, potentially long-term consequences.

[00:12:43] And some potential like outs where like, we don't have enough, you know, at apricots or whatever, you know, the particular commodity might be because of some of these labor issues.

[00:12:53] Yeah.

[00:12:53] Yeah.

[00:12:54] And, you know, I love that apricots was where you're, was the first thing you're buying on.

[00:12:57] I was trying to think of something totally random.

[00:12:59] I'm like, I can't remember the last time I bought an apricot.

[00:13:01] So I don't know.

[00:13:02] I don't know where they came from.

[00:13:05] But, you know, this is, I won't name the certification agency, but there was a cert agency.

[00:13:10] I was in the room for a meeting.

[00:13:11] I think both of us were at Expo West maybe two years ago.

[00:13:14] And a farmer stood up and talked about how he really respects this certification's labor standards, but it created a friction for them because they do have labor that wants to work more than 40 hours a week.

[00:13:28] They want 60.

[00:13:29] They want 80.

[00:13:29] They want to be there working hard and making money.

[00:13:33] And that creates an issue for them.

[00:13:34] So I think this is just, I don't really know how that applies.

[00:13:38] Don't know why I brought that up.

[00:13:39] Maybe we should edit that out.

[00:13:40] No.

[00:13:41] I mean, I think it super applies.

[00:13:42] It makes sense.

[00:13:43] Yeah.

[00:13:44] It's just, it's complicated.

[00:13:45] Doing things the right way is hard.

[00:13:47] Doing things even the commoditized way is going to become harder.

[00:13:51] So it's another one of those things like wait and see.

[00:13:54] But to your point, I think there's going to be some price increases and or shortages in the near term if these deportations actually come to fruition.

[00:14:02] Yeah.

[00:14:03] And, I mean, I hope that they do what they say they want to do and really focus on criminals and the people that we need to deport most first.

[00:14:12] And not just good law-abiding people that maybe came illegally and are working very hard to feed all of us.

[00:14:18] But it's a complex issue.

[00:14:20] It's a complex issue.

[00:14:21] I will shout out one person, Connie Bowen.

[00:14:23] Connie's an absolute badass of a human being.

[00:14:26] And she spends all her time really focused on farm labor and farm labor innovation.

[00:14:30] She has a venture fund investing in basically the future of farm labor and automation.

[00:14:35] And she is very, very clear in her prognostication, which is very educated because I don't know anyone who reads more research and reports and is more tapped in than Connie.

[00:14:45] And, you know, she thinks it's going to get ugly, which makes her very bullish on what she's working on, which is, you know, how do we support better labor and specialty crop production?

[00:14:56] But I trust her opinion.

[00:14:58] And, you know, it's going to be disruptive at the very least.

[00:15:02] I think for us, how much will that affect the types of ingredients that our brands are sourcing from, that these regenerative brands are sourcing from, I think is relatively unknown.

[00:15:10] I think it's more of a fresh commodity fruit and vegetable potential problem.

[00:15:14] But could be wrong about that, too.

[00:15:16] I'm not sure.

[00:15:17] Yeah, I wish I could say I think one way or the other.

[00:15:19] But again, like I've got such a limited amount of knowledge in that capacity, like I'm not even trying to venture an opinion.

[00:15:25] I am not familiar with Connie's work, though, and it feels like maybe I should be.

[00:15:28] So I appreciate that call.

[00:15:29] I'll have to check that out.

[00:15:30] Yeah, Connie's awesome.

[00:15:33] Right.

[00:15:34] Oh, let's jump to Maha, right?

[00:15:36] Yeah.

[00:15:37] The big one.

[00:15:38] Yeah.

[00:15:39] For anyone unfamiliar, I always end up saying this line on every podcast.

[00:15:43] You know, for anybody unfamiliar with Maha, let's talk about what that is.

[00:15:48] So Maha is the Make America Healthy Again movement.

[00:15:52] I don't know if he's the official leader or not, but it's generally very closely tied to RK Jr.

[00:15:57] and some of the work that he's trying to do in the health services role.

[00:16:02] But give us your interpretation of Maha and what you think that might mean for region ag in particular and or the general food system.

[00:16:10] Yeah, I'll do like really brief history context for people and then just like my very 30,000 foot view observations at the moment.

[00:16:19] Basically, RK Jr. ran as an independent.

[00:16:21] You know, he had a nice groundswell of grassroots support, but not enough to really challenge either of the two main party candidates.

[00:16:30] So he dropped out of the race and he has said on interviews that basically the Democrats did not really engage with him or have any interest in kind of working with him in any capacity.

[00:16:38] But the Trump group did. And so he really joined and endorsed Trump.

[00:16:44] And Trump has really got behind this Maha thing, at least in theory, at rallies and talking about it.

[00:16:49] And I'm going to let him run wild on food and run wild on health.

[00:16:52] And we got to we got to fix this.

[00:16:55] Whether that's just talk or not is remains to be seen.

[00:16:59] I think there's a couple of things that I'm watching or thinking about.

[00:17:03] One is anyone that follows how food policy, how policy affects food has basically said Maha is in direct contradiction with what Trump did in his first term,

[00:17:14] which was bolster the conventional conventional system, support kind of conventional agriculture in a big way, create big trade issues that harm farmers, but paid them out to kind of keep them happy.

[00:17:25] And Maha is the opposite. Right. It's like less conventional ag, more regenerative, more organic, et cetera.

[00:17:32] So it's just very clear that him shifting to Maha contradicts his track record. Right.

[00:17:38] And we still don't know if RFK Jr. is going to get approved in his cabinet role as the head of health and human services, I believe.

[00:17:47] And I think some folks in the regenerative movement were more hopeful about who would be appointed the secretary secretary of the USDA.

[00:17:54] And I don't know much about Brooke Collins, but she's not like a super regen Maha person from what I gather.

[00:18:01] She's more of a career politician and more tied in with big ag kind of interests.

[00:18:05] Um, but we've, we've had a couple inklings that, uh, that tell us that, um, this thing is, is real in terms of them thinking about it at least.

[00:18:16] So I'm excited to see, to see what, what, what goes on with those.

[00:18:19] Yeah. I don't know. We don't want to know too much more than that, but, um, it's interesting to see like who they're kind of trying to bring into the circle to have the conversations, uh, in a positive way.

[00:18:30] Interesting, positive way. I would say, um, you know, I tried to look up before we started recording.

[00:18:34] In this podcast, like what specifically is Maha trying to achieve? And based on anything I could find, and this was in like, you know, 10 minutes of research and using chatgypt.

[00:18:43] Um, so not necessarily like the most diligent work.

[00:18:47] Um, it's better than nothing for sure.

[00:18:51] Um, but primarily it said, you know, there's like four different buckets.

[00:18:55] I'm going to focus on two and it's really like removing food additives, um, from our food system in particular talks about artificial dyes.

[00:19:03] Um, and I think I saw something else somewhere about high fructose corn syrup.

[00:19:07] Um, and then part two is on the pesticide front. There's some specific call outs for glyphosate and to know that there's a movement at the executive in the executive branch or starting to trickle down from the top.

[00:19:23] And those things are popping up in conversation to me is incredibly encouraging.

[00:19:27] And somebody who's worked in this industry for the last 12 plus years now, um, it would be really, really cool to see some action taken there because.

[00:19:36] You know, there's a phenomenal book, um, formerly known as food.

[00:19:39] And it talks about how this U S food system is basically a giant experiment where we're just adding all sorts of poison to our system.

[00:19:45] And it's, it's, nobody really knows what's happening, um, to human health.

[00:19:49] And it's so hard to pin down any specific, you know, is it glyphosate?

[00:19:55] Is it red 40?

[00:19:57] Is it, uh, guar gum?

[00:20:00] Is this Anthem gum?

[00:20:00] You know, like there's so many different things in there.

[00:20:02] You can't pinpoint like, Hey, this is the one thing that's causing all these issues.

[00:20:05] But if we systematically from the top start to remove some of these unnecessary additives from our system, I think it can really make a positive impact on human health.

[00:20:13] So that's really exciting.

[00:20:15] Yeah.

[00:20:15] I mean, regenerative aside, like how we grow the food aside, if the administration is just successful in getting the formulation requirements up to the same like European or Canadian standards, like that would even be a huge win.

[00:20:28] Like you said, you get some of these things out of just the products themselves, like forget even how it's grown.

[00:20:32] Um, but I will divulge a little bit more and just say Kyle and I have been contacted about a couple of things that relate to the new administration.

[00:20:42] So they're doing some grassroots work, trying to find people that, you know, are deeply invested in this stuff and trying to talk to them.

[00:20:49] I can't really say more than that.

[00:20:51] Um, but that was a really positive indicator to me.

[00:20:54] Um, so we'll see.

[00:20:56] I mean, like I, who knows, like what, what gives me the most hope is that when RFK was running by himself, when he was talking about regen, he was having like real regen people like Will Harris, Rick Clark, Ray Hinaldo from tree range, like on webinars and on, on his podcast.

[00:21:14] Like he wasn't doing fake regen, you know, greenwash bullshit.

[00:21:18] Like it was the real deal people.

[00:21:20] And to me, that's a really good sign that if him and Nicole Shanahan, like really knew the real people here, we might, we might be able to do something that's a little bit better than incremental change, but who knows.

[00:21:30] Totally agree.

[00:21:31] And I think you, you said something along the lines of like, you know, if this were successful in doing X, Y, Z, and I agree with everything you said, and just want to like acknowledge the fact that there's, I think there's already a level of success.

[00:21:41] Just the fact that this is becoming a national conversation, that is so hugely important.

[00:21:45] So even if this administration doesn't achieve some of these goals, the fact that it's become this popular, you know, in my mind, and I could be wrong, this is stuff you can't unlearn.

[00:21:55] You know, this is not like a habit you pick up and drop or like, you know, a sport or an exercise that you try and you don't like.

[00:22:01] Once you understand how the food system changes your human health and or potential planetary health, like, I don't think that's unlearnable.

[00:22:09] And I think those people kind of become entrenched in those beliefs in a good way.

[00:22:13] So I'm hopeful that, you know, we continue to trend in that direction and that these, these issues become more mainstream and people start to really care about what they're putting into their bodies in mass.

[00:22:23] Yeah.

[00:22:24] Amen.

[00:22:26] And I think, I think we can leave it at that.

[00:22:27] I mean, like it's a, it's a big unknown, but I think we've covered kind of the key topics.

[00:22:33] The, the thing I feel like that has not been talked about enough on the economic effect of potentially this new administration was dude, the first time this guy was in office, the economy was booming.

[00:22:44] Interest rates were really low.

[00:22:45] Money was everywhere and brands access to capital, specifically emerging brands and early stage investing was like hot.

[00:22:53] Like the venture scene was like insane, which had its issues.

[00:22:57] And definitely has like, we've learned a lot in the pullback.

[00:22:59] And I think multi-decade, decade investors have had experience kind of going through these cycles.

[00:23:04] Like it was a first time for me, like I made most of my investments during that time period.

[00:23:08] But I really do think like, if they can, if they can pump up the economy, if they can reduce inflation, if they can bring interest rates back down, there will be more liquidity to invest in these brands and these supply chains, which I think is huge.

[00:23:23] And, you know, if you're left leaning or you don't love the fact that they're in the White House, you might not love to hear that, but like all we can go off of is the last time they were in there.

[00:23:31] And that is what happened.

[00:23:33] So I'm hopeful that that could be a potential positive is that the private markets would heat up and there would be more capital.

[00:23:39] With that being said, we have to also acknowledge, you know, the Biden Harris group did a lot in terms of subsidizing good actors.

[00:23:47] Like, I forget what climate smart commodities ended up being, but I want to say it was multi-billion dollars, like three billion dollars.

[00:23:53] And that was the first time we really had any sort of like true subsidization of climate smart commodities.

[00:23:59] Like that was a huge win for a lot of the sustainable food regenerative movement.

[00:24:04] And they did some other things as well in terms of the Inflation Reduction Act and boosting a lot of the conservation programs.

[00:24:09] So I'm hopeful that some of those wins will stay and that those, you know, those wins we got from a monetary spend will prove themselves as, you know, effective out in the marketplace, which is still TBD.

[00:24:23] But my very limited viewpoint on this is kind of like it swings public versus private.

[00:24:29] So with the Democrats, we had like a lot of public money, but the private money dried up.

[00:24:32] And now maybe with the Republicans, we're going to have a lot more private money, but the public money is going to be a little bit drier.

[00:24:37] I don't know. That's just my, that's my napkin math take on it.

[00:24:41] So what do you think about all that?

[00:24:43] I think you're right. I think you kind of painted two different pictures.

[00:24:46] And I think, you know, use the public private dichotomy, which I think is totally accurate.

[00:24:50] And obviously in my head, I was thinking kind of like bottom up versus top down.

[00:24:53] Whereas, you know, when it's the Biden Harris administration feels more bottom up, like let's support the work and the transition.

[00:24:58] Whereas Trump administration may be more top down, like, hey, more free flowing capital.

[00:25:02] It's going to go in a variety of different sectors, including a startup.

[00:25:06] Right. And that makes me feel like if that is the case, the onus really falls on us as the regenerative movement.

[00:25:15] And, you know, all the entrepreneurs who are trying to focus on solving some of these problems to make good cases for why they need the investment.

[00:25:22] And that paired with what's happening in Maha feels like a potentially ripe environment where maybe some of that free flowing money can be more strategically allocated to those stories and those brands and those founders and those missions.

[00:25:35] So that's really interesting. The other piece that's like.

[00:25:38] So, again, it feels counterintuitive about this, like there are so many brands who focus on climate in the regenerative space.

[00:25:45] Right. Which feels antithetical to this administration coming in.

[00:25:49] Yeah. I don't really have too much opinion on that.

[00:25:52] It's just an interesting observation. And I'm curious to see how that manifests itself in the next four years.

[00:25:59] And it's almost like, do we need to change that narrative to better raise the capital and focus more on the human health rather than the environmental benefit to capture more of that free flowing dollars?

[00:26:12] So that's my take.

[00:26:14] I completely agree that we need to do that.

[00:26:18] And I also think we need to learn how to talk about the climate piece without making it divisive or political, because on the right, there's people that are deeply committed to conservation and caring for the environment.

[00:26:31] They use different language and terminology that might have different opinions on how we should do it.

[00:26:35] But it's funny to kind of view as like a moderate person and say, like, just like we do with all the people that disagree in region.

[00:26:42] And it's like, you guys are all actually saying the same shit and you want the same stuff, but you just can't agree on like the particulars, which is so sad.

[00:26:50] So I don't know. Once again, maybe just hopeful optimism.

[00:26:53] And I'm overly so, but like there's something there.

[00:26:57] There's a through line there that I actually think Maha has really successfully tapped into.

[00:27:02] And, you know, I'm hopeful that the good that's happening there and, you know, can grow and maybe the potential issues can be minimized.

[00:27:12] But you just offered up like a really good segue.

[00:27:14] And I think it's like we've talked about what we think this is going to do from an economic perspective.

[00:27:18] But I think it's really important for us to look at what happened in this election and try and understand consumer sentiment and say, how is that going to affect like the demand and the the effectiveness of our brands and their products like out in the marketplace?

[00:27:32] And what like what is the consumer mindset right now and how are they thinking about things as this administration comes, you know, in into the picture?

[00:27:41] And so, you know, we're both looking at this outline.

[00:27:44] Like I put some notes down that that we can just riff off of.

[00:27:47] But the first one was the rejection of this whole like woke ideology.

[00:27:52] Right. Which I think was deeply tied to climate.

[00:27:55] And I think it's a really interesting parallel with marketing region and the fact that like people don't want to be lectured at.

[00:28:02] I heard this really good quote on a podcast where someone someone said people don't want to be informed.

[00:28:09] They want to feel informed and making someone feel informed versus informing them is like a much different tactic.

[00:28:16] It's the same result.

[00:28:19] So, you know, that was that was the first thing that I just thought of.

[00:28:22] Like, man, we need to be thinking about that in terms of how we're interacting with with consumers.

[00:28:26] Yeah, I think you're right.

[00:28:27] And I just want to pivot back for like, you know, 30 seconds on the previous topic, which does tie into this.

[00:28:32] But it's the the divisiveness in this antithetical like climate change, not climate change, whatever.

[00:28:38] I don't think that there's a lot of people out there who are stoked that there's more environmental disasters every year.

[00:28:43] Yeah.

[00:28:44] And I don't think people are loving more wildfire and more drought and all of these things.

[00:28:49] And in my mind, it doesn't really matter anymore whether or not you think climate change is human caused or not.

[00:28:54] The fact is we are all experiencing this new climate change environment and it's not good for anybody.

[00:29:02] I'm sure it is for somebody, but it's a very small, you know, whoever like, you know, it's good for Bill Gates who wants to learn how to control the weather.

[00:29:09] Right. Yeah.

[00:29:10] You know, there's so many other people want to put silicone in the air to block the sun's rays.

[00:29:13] You know, like it's great for them.

[00:29:14] Good on you, which I don't think that's a good idea.

[00:29:17] Just just on the record.

[00:29:19] But anyway, I think that to your point, like the left in particular, I think their messaging on this is so woke and so pushed towards like, hey, every time they mention it, it's human caused climate change.

[00:29:32] That's like, dude, get over it.

[00:29:33] That part doesn't matter anymore.

[00:29:34] Let's remove the divisiveness from the conversation and focus on the fact that we're all experiencing this like radically different environment that is negative for everyone.

[00:29:44] And work together to find the solutions to try to solve some of these problems.

[00:29:47] And we've talked about this on previous podcasts where it's like, I really think regenerative ag can be that purple bridge that brings both sides together because you're focusing on smallholder farmers, rural America, but has these benefits that cascade into metropolitan areas as well.

[00:30:02] So it is going to be really interesting.

[00:30:30] I even feel like me personally, who is a person that believes in climate change and like we need to fix that and it's a major issue.

[00:30:36] When a brand markets themselves as like, this is the best blank for the climate.

[00:30:40] I'm like, ah, you're like, okay, like cool.

[00:30:43] When they market themselves as like, this is the best blank you can eat and it's, and it helps solve climate change or this is the best blank you can feed your family or this is the healthiest blank you can feed your family.

[00:30:53] And it like, when it's an and instead of the, it's like so much less heavy and like divisive.

[00:31:01] And it's just like, fuck yeah.

[00:31:03] It's like a cool little like extra attaboy versus it needing to be some sort of like big thing that I think has negative, has some sort of negative effect for people.

[00:31:13] I don't know.

[00:31:13] Maybe that's just me, but I don't know.

[00:31:15] No, I agree.

[00:31:15] Man, I was actually thinking about this.

[00:31:17] I don't know if it was earlier today or yesterday, just in terms of preparing for this podcast and it's like altruistic.

[00:31:22] We're going to save the planet thing is kind of in, at the end of the day, bullshit.

[00:31:26] Like somebody might have the best of intentions.

[00:31:27] Like, oh, I'm here to save the planet.

[00:31:29] Dude, the planet is going to be fine.

[00:31:30] What we're all really looking to do is to maintain some semblance of status quo that humans continue to participate on this planet in the same sort of role that they play today, which is primarily like they don't have to think about it too much, really.

[00:31:46] You know, if we continue down the path that we're on, like that's going to change.

[00:31:50] And I was thinking about it like, I'm not trying, this is going to go a weird direction, but there's a lot of like, there's a lot of war that has to do with religion.

[00:31:58] There's a lot of war that has to do with, you know, resources.

[00:32:01] There's, you know, differences in political ideologies.

[00:32:04] But think about how scary the world will be when it's literally people are fighting over food.

[00:32:10] And if we continue down this path, that's the inevitable down point like we're going to get to.

[00:32:16] And if you think about like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, there's all these different needs.

[00:32:21] But at the very bottom, it's like you have to have food and water.

[00:32:23] And if we don't figure out as a society, as a species inhabiting this planet, like how to fix that thing, it's going to be dire.

[00:32:32] Whether or not that's in our lifetime, I'm not super concerned about it personally.

[00:32:36] But when I think about like to save the planet, it's like we're not trying to save the planet.

[00:32:39] We're trying to save our species and the way we interact with the planet.

[00:32:44] Yeah, I mean, I think you're spot on there, man.

[00:32:46] And like I think about a couple of things that have been introduced as concepts like climate refugees.

[00:32:50] Like you think immigration is bad now.

[00:32:53] What about if there's all these, you know, places that are destroyed by climate change and they're all trying to come to the U.S.

[00:32:58] And, you know, they are people that need like help and they need somewhere else to go.

[00:33:01] What are we going to do?

[00:33:02] And the other thing that I've said this on a couple of calls recently that we need to do a better job as a regen movement of selling food security.

[00:33:10] Like that is bipartisan and super important.

[00:33:14] And the big issue, and this is unfortunately not something that we have a great effect on in the work that we do in premium CPG.

[00:33:23] But like the fact of the matter is we grow a bunch of commodity crops in our best farmland and we export a lot of them or they grow.

[00:33:31] They are put into animal feed or fuel.

[00:33:33] Like what what could this country do if all of that farmland was returned to its, you know, ecological true context.

[00:33:41] And it was agroforestry, pasture land, you know, with diversified livestock systems and tree crops and vegetables and nuts, like things that people actually eat.

[00:33:52] I think that is such a huge lever.

[00:33:54] And like I said, it's not super related to our work, at least tactically, but conceptually, it's something that I feel like would move the needle so much that we don't spend enough time on.

[00:34:05] And I just don't hear enough people talking about, I guess.

[00:34:07] Dude, I could not agree more.

[00:34:08] And I love the way you phrase like what could this country do?

[00:34:10] And it makes me pivot back to and I love how these things are so intrinsically twined together.

[00:34:15] Right. It's like from a human health perspective, what could we do as a country if we had not an obese, sick population?

[00:34:21] Right. I think Mark Hyman does a really good job of talking about that in Food Fix.

[00:34:26] He actually quantifies like the amount of like manpower labor that we lose to sickness every year from preventable disease that it's diet related.

[00:34:34] And it is staggering.

[00:34:36] I wish I could remember the stats off the top of my head.

[00:34:37] I don't, but it's absolutely insane.

[00:34:39] So to your point, like if we were to actually maximize this space and prioritize healthy soil, healthy people, healthy people, healthy, healthy soil, whatever.

[00:34:49] The I get like giddy thinking about the potential this this country could have.

[00:34:53] You know what I mean?

[00:34:56] And there was somewhere else I was going to go and I totally lost it.

[00:34:59] And there's like 40 different paths in my head right now.

[00:35:02] There was, what could this country do?

[00:35:05] Was it like back to the GDP and like the, like if we aren't sick, we can boost the economy and like people will be healthier, happier.

[00:35:11] No, it was a different direction.

[00:35:14] I lost it.

[00:35:14] It might come back later in the pod.

[00:35:16] It was a good one too.

[00:35:16] I'm bummed.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] But, uh, when it comes back, let it rip brother.

[00:35:20] We're here.

[00:35:20] We're here for it.

[00:35:21] We've got plenty of time.

[00:35:22] Yeah.

[00:35:22] I mean, one other pivot and then we may have talked about this already.

[00:35:25] I recently read, um, undaunted courage, a book where it's like the first time Lewis and Clark explore and really document and perform all sorts of like incredible science on the Western part of the country.

[00:35:35] And when they talk about the richness of the soil, so to your point, like if we could restore that, it would just be extraordinary.

[00:35:42] And this is where I was going to go.

[00:35:43] Um, to your point, if we're growing food that people actually eat and we're prioritizing soil health, I mentioned this stat all the time, probably every other episode, but every 1% increase in soil organic matter equals 20,000 gallons of water per acre.

[00:35:57] Yes.

[00:35:57] And that's holding capacity.

[00:35:59] There's, I think 896 million acres of arable land in the United States.

[00:36:03] And if we could increase all of that one or 2%, think about that, that's going to change the entire small water cycle, reduce drought, reduce the irrigation needs for farmland, reduce the amount of topsoil that's running off into the ocean, creating carbon dead zones.

[00:36:18] Like the, the, the cascading benefits of doing this is just mind boggling.

[00:36:23] Um, and just trying to figure out like how we set the policies or get people to buy the right stuff to make all this happen.

[00:36:30] You look like you're going to laugh at me.

[00:36:32] I'm trying to hold it in.

[00:36:33] Because I, I gotta say, I gotta say, it's like, we're doing a new episode with a new format, but you can rely on Kyle to play the hits, which are a book recommendation and the water infiltration stat.

[00:36:44] I fucking love it.

[00:36:45] I am who I am.

[00:36:46] You know, it's going to happen.

[00:36:48] There's a, there's a couple of things I want to mention and riff on, and then we can, we can move on from the administration change.

[00:36:54] But I think they're just really like keen stats or observations to think about.

[00:36:59] First one was like voter participation was way up and voter participation is highest when people are pissed off, which means they want change.

[00:37:08] Right.

[00:37:08] And what we are working on is something that is anti-establishment or would, would need a lot of kind of change energy around it.

[00:37:15] So that was the first one that I thought was interesting.

[00:37:18] The second one was households under a hundred K in, you know, annual compensation voted in big waves for Donald Trump.

[00:37:24] And they want cheaper groceries.

[00:37:26] So like we talked about last episode, how do we actually make these products more affordable and what can we do?

[00:37:31] And how can we have multi-stakeholder partnerships that makes that a reality versus putting all the pressure on the farmer and the brand to, to make that a reality.

[00:37:39] And then the other one that I thought was really interesting, which kind of ties back into the first one was there was this wave of anti-elite and anti-establishment energy globally across a lot of the recent elections.

[00:37:50] And I think that showed up here in the U S in a big way.

[00:37:54] And, you know, back to the whole, like region to me is anti-establishment.

[00:37:59] So like, could that be good for us, but how does that play with something that's anti-establishment, but also premium when people want cheaper groceries and maybe they view like region as the premium elite.

[00:38:09] So like what, what really are we and what is our context and how does all that affect us?

[00:38:13] Like, I, I don't know, but it's just fun stuff to try and ponder.

[00:38:16] Yeah.

[00:38:17] I'll start with the last one first, cause I think it's a really good call out.

[00:38:19] It does feel again, sort of like it's a, it's a weird dichotomy.

[00:38:22] Yeah.

[00:38:23] What's so interesting is yeah, it's premium pricing, but the benefit goes to the smallholder farmer rather than the big commodity farmer.

[00:38:29] Right.

[00:38:29] So this is where I think storytelling is so, so critical.

[00:38:33] So if, if the brands can nail the storytelling and show that these regenerative brands and regenerative products are benefiting the smallholder farmers who are doing it the right way.

[00:38:43] Uh, I think that that's a winning combination.

[00:38:47] I just, I don't think it's what you lead with.

[00:38:49] Like we've talked about, I just think, you know, the human health factor is still the leading attribute.

[00:38:53] Yeah.

[00:38:53] But it's an important story that can hopefully mitigate some of that elitism, you know, anti-elite sentiment.

[00:38:59] That is, um, yeah, that makes sense.

[00:39:04] Yeah.

[00:39:05] No, I meant, and that has actually played out more.

[00:39:08] I feel like in the regenerative movement in media and storytelling about supporting the type of agriculture versus like on the CPG product marketing side.

[00:39:16] Totally.

[00:39:16] With like the way that kiss the ground and common ground of spotlight of these farmers that have been kind of taken advantage of, or like gay Brown's recent health troubles that probably are linked to agrochemicals.

[00:39:26] And, you know, the fact that we have a big agriculture, a big financial system that really just puts these men and women into like servitude in a very unfortunate capacity, which also ties back into, can we get these people, can we get these farmers in the Midwest to do something different to grow actual food?

[00:39:44] Like, um, so yeah, man, just a lot of interesting stuff.

[00:39:48] It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out.

[00:39:49] It is.

[00:39:50] Yeah.

[00:39:51] And I think it's important to talk about like one of the questions you asked is how do we make region more affordable?

[00:39:55] So let's try to rip on that for a minute.

[00:39:56] You know, I had an idea recently and I have no idea if this even makes sense, but I'm not a policy writer, believe it or not.

[00:40:05] I love how this whole episode is us just throwing shit at the wall, but with heavy disclaimers as it should be.

[00:40:10] I love that.

[00:40:11] Yeah.

[00:40:11] You know, you got to call that out.

[00:40:14] But, you know, we, we've talked about before this like tax quote, this tax that regenerative brands have to pay to prove that they're better than these different commodity systems.

[00:40:22] Right.

[00:40:23] Yeah.

[00:40:23] And in my mind, if we can try to reduce that tax from a policy perspective.

[00:40:27] So if you have, you know, in region brands, I think it's, we have six different certifications and or verifications that we honor.

[00:40:33] Is that right?

[00:40:34] Seven certs.

[00:40:35] And then the whole foods pathway.

[00:40:36] So eight total pathways, seven certs.

[00:40:38] So if we took just to start with a model, if we took that model and we said, Hey, if you have one of these certs, you can either like write off the cost of that sort of, or the government will just subsidize that cost for you.

[00:40:48] And in my mind, it really helps to reduce that burden and can make it more accessible for some of these brands to get that certification.

[00:40:58] And that, that alone might, I don't want to say it's going to be like the big needle mover that's going to change the entire planning, but it's an incentive pushing people to go the right direction.

[00:41:06] Yeah.

[00:41:06] Yeah.

[00:41:07] Yeah.

[00:41:07] I mean, there's art, like I've seen various different announcements from the USDA in the past, and there's been legislation where people are doing that for the organic certification, which once again, is it the biggest needle moving thing for the brand economically?

[00:41:20] No, but like, it's a win.

[00:41:22] Like, let's get some wins on the board here.

[00:41:23] Um, you know, I think as, as we've tried to think about legislation and like, what could this administration do the challenge, at least in my opinion has been, um, you know, this, this regenerative thing's not defined like USD organic.

[00:41:37] So we could learn from all the things that they've done to support USD organic.

[00:41:42] And there were some, some cool wins in the Biden Harris administration there, but it's like, you just said, we got seven certs.

[00:41:47] Like what, what is the actual kind of standard we're going to levy this against and interesting tie into California because they're trying to figure that out.

[00:41:56] And they're trying to define regenerative for their state policies and programs.

[00:41:59] And people keep asking me how that's going to affect our work.

[00:42:02] And I'm like, I don't really think it's going to affect our work because they're not trying to define it from a consumer claims perspective.

[00:42:06] They're trying to define it for how the farmers can access, you know, grants and subsidies and government programming around regenerative.

[00:42:12] Um, but I think it's gonna be deeply tied into whatever the USDA ends up doing probably.

[00:42:18] Yeah, I think you're right.

[00:42:20] Um, yeah, the California conversation in particular is really interesting.

[00:42:23] And I think I just read that they put that on pause for a minute.

[00:42:26] Like they've been discussing it for, I mean, I think more than a year and they still can't figure it out.

[00:42:32] They, they like released their first definition, I guess, and the board sent it back and it was all like in a public hearing.

[00:42:39] I didn't watch it.

[00:42:39] I saw an article we've, we've shared an article about it.

[00:42:42] Um, so there's still not a big resolution there.

[00:42:45] And like I said, I, I think our industry will talk a lot about it and act like it really affects us.

[00:42:50] But, you know, the thing that would really affect our constituents on the brand side is like if Whole Foods changes their definition of regenerative, like that, that moves the needle way more than whatever.

[00:43:01] California is going to decide to get farmers access to capital to fund transition or practices.

[00:43:07] Yeah.

[00:43:09] Yeah, it's a good point.

[00:43:09] And then, you know, part of me wonders, like, you know, if California does come up with a definition, will Whole Foods change their tune to your point?

[00:43:15] Yeah.

[00:43:16] And there could be some that like cascading, I don't want to say benefits changes that happen from that decision.

[00:43:22] Um, and I can't remember what some of the other definitions were, but California has a track record of setting some sort of a policy that ends up becoming the national policy.

[00:43:28] Um, so it's, it might seem small that California is going to make this decision, but it will have potential national consequences and potential global consequences.

[00:43:37] Yeah.

[00:43:38] A hundred percent.

[00:43:39] Yeah.

[00:43:40] Well, bro, that was a really fun conversation.

[00:43:43] I think we can segue even deeply more into like regen consumer awareness and demand.

[00:43:49] We've talked about it at a high level from, from just overall like consumer sentiment, but Regenified did recently release a report, um, where they did some consumer research.

[00:43:58] And I thought the data was pretty interesting.

[00:44:01] So we want to, obviously we'll link it in the show notes.

[00:44:03] Um, but, uh, we want to riff on some of the key findings, but before we do, I'll just read, uh, you know, description from the press release.

[00:44:09] So the audience knows what we're talking about here.

[00:44:11] The in-depth study commissioned by Regenified, a leader in regenerative agriculture verification involved 850 U.S. consumers segmented into general consumers and value-based shoppers.

[00:44:21] The data revealed a key finding during analysis, the emergence of a subset of consumers spanning both groups dubbed the emerging regenerative market who demonstrate significant interest in regenerative values and a desire to purchase regenerative products.

[00:44:35] The findings present a major opportunity for brands and retailers to meet this growing demand.

[00:44:39] So I think first disclaimer off the bat is like love Regenified, love what they do.

[00:44:44] Like us, there's great self-interest in the findings being good.

[00:44:48] So, you know, we hope that they are actually that and that that is how the world is shaping.

[00:44:54] But like, we should just acknowledge that it's very self-serving for us and them to say this is going in a positive direction.

[00:45:01] Um, but let's, let's run through some of the key findings and just riff on those.

[00:45:05] Before we hit on the key findings, I think for me, when I was reading these key findings, it was really important to try to like quantify like what this meant.

[00:45:11] So they surveyed 850 U.S. consumers and segmented them into two different groups.

[00:45:14] One was general consumers of which they said that out of 850, 250 are quote general consumers.

[00:45:21] The other group they're calling values-based shoppers, which they're saying is 600 out of 850, which is 71%.

[00:45:28] So to your point, AC, like to me, that feels way too rosy.

[00:45:32] When you look at how, how, yeah, how, uh, U.S. shoppers actually purchase their food, like in the raw, like syndicated data platforms.

[00:45:40] I don't really feel like 71% of all shoppers are values-based.

[00:45:44] I agree.

[00:45:46] And I think it was right for them to start there because like we've talked about many times, like we got to go win with this thing in the natural channel first, which is where those shoppers shop.

[00:45:54] So like agree.

[00:45:55] And I think it was the right approach.

[00:45:56] Great point.

[00:45:57] Yeah.

[00:45:57] I just want to quantify that.

[00:45:58] Like when I was, when I was reading some of these data points, it's like, there's no way this is true.

[00:46:02] Um, but it helps me to, to, with that additional information to, to kind of like create that context that we're actually talking about.

[00:46:09] Yeah.

[00:46:09] A hundred percent.

[00:46:10] Okay.

[00:46:11] So key findings, you know, one of the first ones is rising awareness and interest.

[00:46:15] So according to this, this, this, uh, report, 68% of values-based shoppers are aware of regenerative agriculture and 65% expressed a strong interest in purchasing regenerative products after learning more.

[00:46:27] Um, of their initial 65%, I think only 37% of that values-based segment actually claims to understand what regenerative agriculture means.

[00:46:37] So that's all super interesting.

[00:46:40] Anything you really want to talk about there?

[00:46:43] What came through the report was that last thing that you talked about was they, they were, they put down before showing visual, before being shown visual aids, just 37% of values-based shoppers reported a strong understanding of it as in regenerative agriculture.

[00:46:57] That's the key to me, which is how many times we're going to talk about on this podcast.

[00:47:01] How many times have we been the only people shouting it from the rooftops?

[00:47:04] Like high level consumer awareness does not exist yet.

[00:47:08] Like it's very, very clear like that.

[00:47:11] We, we, we skewed to values-based shoppers and still there was very little awareness.

[00:47:16] And I, I bet even most of them probably said they were aware of it just to not sound dumb.

[00:47:21] Right.

[00:47:22] Or, or, or be like present better than they are.

[00:47:25] Um, so that's, that's my first thing.

[00:47:28] I think it's positive and we should celebrate it full stop.

[00:47:32] And I think we should make sure we're really taking, taking a sobering perspective as to how we evaluate this stuff.

[00:47:37] So, you know, the fact that, um, the 68% are aware of it and 65% express strong interest, I think that's good.

[00:47:45] And I think that's probably mostly accurate.

[00:47:47] Is it, is it those numbers?

[00:47:49] I don't know.

[00:47:49] I don't probably feel that way with great conviction, but I do think it is growing.

[00:47:53] Um, and that can be leveraged.

[00:47:57] And this, this is still good, verifiable, reputable data that I think could be put in front of retailers and other decision makers.

[00:48:04] And it's meaningful.

[00:48:06] Totally agree.

[00:48:07] And especially appreciate you're like, let's celebrate this.

[00:48:10] And let's talk about why it may not be exactly what's what we see in the real world.

[00:48:14] Um, you know, this is where data gets a little bit difficult when it's like, okay, Hey, 68% of this group, um, of this larger population, only 37% actually get it.

[00:48:24] So what does that number actually mean?

[00:48:25] According to the survey, that means that 26% of those surveyed actually claim to understand what regenerative agriculture means.

[00:48:33] Again, that 26% feels really, really high to me.

[00:48:37] I think realistically we're probably in like maybe the five to 10% ish and even 10% to me feels generous.

[00:48:44] Um, value based shoppers though.

[00:48:46] I feel like, I mean, I, 26 is a lot, but a value based shoppers.

[00:48:50] I think we might be above 10.

[00:48:51] I think we might be at 15 to 20.

[00:48:54] Okay.

[00:48:55] I'm biased.

[00:48:55] Well, I think, I think what we need to do.

[00:48:58] So value based shoppers, right?

[00:48:59] Like we can, maybe this will be a homework assignment and we can report back our results.

[00:49:03] We'll do a qualitative study.

[00:49:04] Casey and I will both walk into a local natural food store, assuming, assuming X percentage,

[00:49:09] you know, a high percentage of value based shoppers if they're in a whole foods or sprouts

[00:49:12] or natural groceries or whatever.

[00:49:14] Yeah.

[00:49:14] And we'll survey them and say, Hey, tell me what regenerative agriculture means to you.

[00:49:17] And if they hit on call it three out of the five major bullet points, they get a check

[00:49:21] mark.

[00:49:22] And that will be our litmus test to see like in the real world, how many people really

[00:49:26] get what regenerative agriculture is.

[00:49:30] I don't know if I got time for that one, brother, to be honest with you.

[00:49:32] This is real science.

[00:49:33] You can hire a test, grab it, you know, whatever.

[00:49:35] Like just we'll figure it out.

[00:49:37] I'll go to two stores.

[00:49:37] I'll do all the research.

[00:49:38] It's fine.

[00:49:39] There you go.

[00:49:39] I appreciate that.

[00:49:40] Yeah.

[00:49:42] Um, well, I don't know if this stat is on when I was reading the report.

[00:49:46] There's something else that was really interesting to me.

[00:49:47] And it, it feels like during part of the regenerified, um, survey or reporting, or I don't

[00:49:53] know exactly how these interviews were conducted, but they took the time to educate people.

[00:49:58] And when they did the interest shot up significantly.

[00:50:02] Um, did you read that as well?

[00:50:04] Yeah, that's, that's how I understood it.

[00:50:06] Um, which once again, I think it's a positive because we know like that's not being

[00:50:10] done to the level and in the right uniformity or collaborative capacity as it needs to be

[00:50:15] done.

[00:50:15] So like, duh.

[00:50:16] Um, but it could have been the opposite way where they were educated and they didn't increase

[00:50:20] interest at all.

[00:50:21] So we have to acknowledge that like, that's a win and should be celebrated and, um, you

[00:50:26] know, thought of, um, I, I thought it was interesting also like their takeaway that certification

[00:50:32] is critical.

[00:50:33] Once again, probably correct, but very self-serving 72% of value-based shoppers and 92% of the

[00:50:39] emerging regenerative market place high importance on certification when choosing products, demanding

[00:50:43] clear labeling to ensure trust in the products they choose.

[00:50:46] All the historical data that we have, especially about value-based shoppers that that's true.

[00:50:50] They do pace importance on certification.

[00:50:53] You talk to any retailer in natural foods, they'll tell you like the customers care about

[00:50:56] these certifications.

[00:50:57] So totally agree.

[00:50:59] That's a separate conversation from how should we certify regenerative and what's right and

[00:51:04] wrong and fair.

[00:51:06] Um, but yeah, I think, I think there is more consumer value and certification and I don't

[00:51:10] think that's going to change.

[00:51:11] I 100% agree.

[00:51:13] And, you know, I've spent a lot of time in grocery stores and, you know, people don't

[00:51:17] want to have to pick up every single thing they're looking at and not only look at the

[00:51:21] LOI, um, but also have to read like the romance copy, like who's the farm supporting?

[00:51:26] What are their practices?

[00:51:27] It's like, that's just, it's extraordinarily cumbersome and people are in a hurry always.

[00:51:32] Right.

[00:51:32] So I think you're spot on in this report is spot on in this one.

[00:51:35] Like people care about certifications that they don't have to do that.

[00:51:39] They want to make their decisions quickly and have a specific seal or button that they

[00:51:44] trust.

[00:51:44] Um, and I think that there are a few certifications, um, regenerative organic certified and

[00:51:50] regenerified in particular that are starting to get that level of credibility within a small

[00:51:53] subset of consumers.

[00:51:55] Um, but we need to broaden that.

[00:51:57] You know, and this is something we've talked about at length so many times.

[00:52:00] Um, not only do we need to broaden that with, with other certifications and verifications,

[00:52:05] but we also need to create that uniform system that you just described so that people don't

[00:52:09] have to understand not only one certification, but like the eight legit or seven legit certifications

[00:52:15] and verifications out there.

[00:52:16] We can just put it under one name, one umbrella and say, Hey, this is all X, Y, Z, whatever

[00:52:21] the name we decided to call it.

[00:52:23] Yeah.

[00:52:23] I mean, it's a great segue into one of the other key findings, which was supplies, a current

[00:52:27] barrier.

[00:52:28] So limited availability is a challenge for 40% of value, values-based shoppers and 44%

[00:52:34] of the emerging returner market signaling a clear need to expand access to returner products.

[00:52:39] Duh.

[00:52:39] Um, but you know, we've talked, we've talked at length about on this podcast about you

[00:52:44] can fill your whole grocery cart with returner products.

[00:52:47] Like at this point, I could take you to any whole foods or sprouts and I could get you

[00:52:51] 80, 90, 95% of the way there, at least on package products.

[00:52:55] Um, so we've reached a tipping point in that regard where there's enough availability for

[00:53:01] like there to be something happening here.

[00:53:02] If you look at it as a percentage of the total assortment of the store, it's still tiny and

[00:53:06] still minuscule.

[00:53:07] So like, yes, that gap still really exists.

[00:53:09] But the point I'm trying to drive is yes.

[00:53:12] Overall availability is still limited, but we're also missing a huge identification opportunity

[00:53:19] in store with the, with the availability we already have that I think could greatly impact

[00:53:23] that even with just, if we never change the assortment, which that's not going to happen,

[00:53:27] but huge lever there.

[00:53:29] Yeah, man.

[00:53:30] And this, this was exactly what we were just talking about.

[00:53:32] There is no single unifying marker where somebody who maybe they buy regenerative dairy,

[00:53:38] right.

[00:53:39] And they know, and they love like, Hey, I want to support this, but they don't know that

[00:53:42] they have regenerative options in chips or in baking or in olives or in broth or all of

[00:53:47] these other categories because of that lack of unification and messaging.

[00:53:50] And it's such a miss for the entire industry, all the way from everybody, from like the

[00:53:55] farmers to, I mean the brand and everybody in between.

[00:53:59] I was going to try to name them all, but that was going to take too long.

[00:54:03] So yeah, there's just such a huge opportunity there.

[00:54:06] Yeah.

[00:54:08] These, these last two, and we can, we can round this out.

[00:54:12] These are like, I don't have a lot of commentary.

[00:54:14] I disagree with them and I think they're, they're pretty validating.

[00:54:17] So number one is consumers prioritize health and nutrient density.

[00:54:21] 80% of values-based shoppers and 96% of the emerging regenerative market expressed a desire

[00:54:26] for nutrient dense foods, correlating regenerative practices and healthier choices.

[00:54:30] Yes.

[00:54:30] Like I think this is, I think that's like a no brainer, not a ton to add on that one.

[00:54:34] Willingness to pay a premium was the other key finding.

[00:54:37] 89% of the emerging regenerative market are willing to pay more for regenerative products,

[00:54:41] reflecting strong consumer sentiment to align purchasing decisions with ethical and environmental

[00:54:45] values.

[00:54:46] That's strong.

[00:54:47] I mean, my, my only disclaimer for that one is that number always looks better when you're

[00:54:52] trying to survey purchasing intent versus when you're actually looking at purchasing data.

[00:54:56] And so we just really won't know what that truly looks like until we have a much better

[00:55:02] data tracking mechanism for all the sales of regenerative products, which right now is

[00:55:06] pretty limited and disparate and not effective if you're trying to just evaluate regenerative.

[00:55:13] Yeah, I agree.

[00:55:14] And this is so interesting.

[00:55:15] The wording in that willingness to pay premium stat you just shared.

[00:55:18] And I think it's like so indicative of the problems that we as an industry continue to

[00:55:22] create for ourselves.

[00:55:23] You know, it says specifically quote, reflecting strong consumer commitment to align purchasing

[00:55:28] decisions with ethical and environmental values.

[00:55:31] Why are we not prioritizing human health in that statement?

[00:55:34] Because that could be the leading attribute that is creating this willingness for people

[00:55:38] to pay a premium, right?

[00:55:40] So even in this study, they're, they're focusing on potentially the wrong attributes and maybe

[00:55:45] they surveyed on those two.

[00:55:46] I don't know.

[00:55:47] It looked, yeah.

[00:55:48] I mean, that was the other stat, the nutrient density and health stat.

[00:55:50] So I think they just divided them instead of linking all of them together.

[00:55:53] Like I think they got data around the health and nutrient density thing and then the, the

[00:55:59] environmental and ethical purchasing.

[00:56:01] So if I was to build on what you're saying and the theme of it, I would agree with what

[00:56:16] nutrient density versus the paying a premium that was tied to ethics and environmental, because

[00:56:20] like you said, if the premium isn't tied to health and wellness, we think it's bullshit.

[00:56:25] Basically.

[00:56:26] Yeah.

[00:56:26] Is what, is what, what you're saying?

[00:56:28] I wouldn't say bullshit.

[00:56:29] I would say that there's probably a very small subset who's actually willing to pay

[00:56:33] the premium for that quote altruistic, like environmental benefit.

[00:56:36] You know, this is good for the world.

[00:56:37] So I'm going to pay more for it.

[00:56:38] You know, I'm not saying that those people don't exist, but I think it's a much smaller

[00:56:41] subset of the population, especially when we're in a difficult economic period of

[00:56:45] paying more for all groceries.

[00:56:47] Right.

[00:56:48] Yeah.

[00:56:49] And I mean, huge shout out to the Regenified team.

[00:56:52] They're doing some really cool stuff.

[00:56:53] We don't want our commentary to be taken as criticism at all.

[00:56:57] Like we need a crazy more amount of consumer research in the space and just so pumped that

[00:57:02] they did this.

[00:57:03] I think it's really positive.

[00:57:04] I think brands that even aren't Regenified can use it as good storytelling statistics and

[00:57:09] fodder for conversations with consumers and retailers.

[00:57:13] So huge shout out to them.

[00:57:15] Thank you for their leadership.

[00:57:16] And, you know, this stuff costs money and they did a really nice job, I think, getting

[00:57:20] the research done and producing the report.

[00:57:21] So overall, super promising.

[00:57:25] I just want to echo that sentiment as somebody who seemed very critical over the last, you

[00:57:29] know, maybe five minutes.

[00:57:30] But yeah, this is phenomenal.

[00:57:32] And this is a type of resource that simply like prior to this, I don't know if this existed,

[00:57:37] this sort of information, this data.

[00:57:38] And it is so important and so helpful.

[00:57:41] And we hope to see more.

[00:57:43] You know, and it's easy for people like us and me in particular to sit here and tear something

[00:57:47] apart that somebody spent, you know, a ton of energy, effort, resources to create.

[00:57:51] And I hope this doesn't come off that way.

[00:57:53] We're just here talking about, you know, why this is great.

[00:57:55] What's challenging about it.

[00:57:56] Why we feel this way about some of these stats.

[00:57:59] 100%, bro.

[00:57:59] You didn't come off as turning it down to me at all.

[00:58:01] Like we're just trying to give our objective and subjective opinions on the topic.

[00:58:06] And, you know, it's really important that we try and have disclaimers and, you know, be

[00:58:12] transparent with people.

[00:58:13] So yeah, I'm all for it.

[00:58:17] So we want to shift now to something I think we've wanted to do for a little while.

[00:58:21] And we're doing in our newsletter every week.

[00:58:23] So if you don't subscribe to the newsletter, check it out.

[00:58:25] We'll drop that in the show notes and the links as well.

[00:58:28] But just big news.

[00:58:29] Like we have brands out here doing really cool stuff in the world.

[00:58:32] And we should be talking about it more, celebrating it, acknowledging it.

[00:58:35] And keeping the audience that listens to us on the pod, you know, more informed in this

[00:58:39] capacity.

[00:58:40] So five kind of big recent stories that we just wanted to mention and kind of riff on.

[00:58:46] The first three, I'll start with the first two.

[00:58:49] So Recoup, they won the new beverage showdown at BevNet.

[00:58:53] So huge win for them.

[00:58:55] Yeah, like BevNet is the biggest like trade industry mag for Better For You premium beverages.

[00:59:01] And they have...

[00:59:02] Yeah, just to be clear, not like region specific or necessarily sustainably focused.

[00:59:06] Like all beverages.

[00:59:08] Yeah.

[00:59:09] So big, I mean, big win for them.

[00:59:11] Big win for region.

[00:59:12] Like shout out to Siwa and Susan.

[00:59:14] Just really, really cool.

[00:59:16] Like that's a big win for them and for region.

[00:59:19] So just kudos to them.

[00:59:19] And then in a similar vein, Longtable was a part of the SKU, the fall cohort of the SKU

[00:59:27] accelerator.

[00:59:27] And the SKU accelerator, I guess in my opinion, or, you know, industry's opinion is the best

[00:59:32] accelerator in the industry.

[00:59:34] And like Kyle said, it's not sustainability or region focused.

[00:59:37] It's just CPG focused.

[00:59:39] And Longtable took home the viewer's choice, like the audience choice and the judge's choice

[00:59:44] in the pitch competition at the end of that program.

[00:59:47] So just two huge wins for regenerative brands, emerging regenerative brands, and pumped that

[00:59:52] they're both part of the region brands coalition and just excited for their future.

[00:59:56] Totally.

[00:59:56] And, you know, shout out to Samuel at Longtable.

[00:59:58] You know, it's not surprising to me that he wins.

[01:00:00] He's a theater actor.

[01:00:01] Yeah.

[01:00:02] You know, he can really tell a great story.

[01:00:03] Good stage presence.

[01:00:04] Yeah, he's a great stage presence.

[01:00:06] He's also, he's just a great storyteller.

[01:00:08] If you haven't listened to his podcast episode that we have, you absolutely should because

[01:00:11] it's very entertaining.

[01:00:12] Um, but to your point, AC, like these are reputable industry wide, um, events and opportunities

[01:00:19] and region brands are winning.

[01:00:21] And that's a really highly competitive, super highly competitive, you know?

[01:00:25] Yeah.

[01:00:26] Um, and that's, that's a really positive sign, not just for the brands individually, but

[01:00:29] for the movement as a whole.

[01:00:31] And I don't know why, like my, my brain kind of went to like fantasy football when you're

[01:00:34] talking about this, it's like, you're not necessarily rooting for like one team, you

[01:00:37] know, like rooting for like these different players in these different spaces.

[01:00:40] Um, but it's cool to see that the folks on the quote region team, um, are really like

[01:00:46] taking these, taking these wins home and put them in the trophy case.

[01:00:49] So, uh, definitely something we should do more and talk about this like out loud on the pod.

[01:00:53] Uh, but it's really cool to see that we're making waves in the right places.

[01:00:57] Yeah, no, a hundred percent.

[01:00:59] And it's a good segue into kind of the third big news, which is the painter line sisters

[01:01:03] debuted a new passion fruit flavor, uh, skew, which is going to be exclusively

[01:01:07] launched in sprouts, but even bigger news they've launched in all public supermarkets.

[01:01:12] So for those that don't know, Publix is a very strong Southeast, uh, grocery chain with

[01:01:17] more than 1300 stores, mainly in Florida and kind of up into like Georgia and some of the

[01:01:21] surrounding States.

[01:01:23] I mean, that is a massive Mula win for regenerative brand.

[01:01:27] That is just an absolute rocket ship.

[01:01:29] So shout out to the painter land sisters, shout out to Stephanie and Haley and their team

[01:01:33] and really their broader team.

[01:01:35] That's been super involved in the coalition.

[01:01:36] We really, we really appreciate their support and their engagement and they're just out there

[01:01:40] crushing it.

[01:01:41] I'm so excited to see how they sell in that retailer.

[01:01:44] Totally.

[01:01:45] And shout out to Publix for, you know, making this sort of decision.

[01:01:47] And what's cool is that, that maybe they didn't have to make this decision based on like,

[01:01:52] Oh, we wanted to bring a regenerative dairy, you know, product into the yogurt category.

[01:01:56] Maybe it was just based on their success, you know, and either way, whatever their decision

[01:02:00] making was like the fact that they're making regenerative products more available to, to

[01:02:03] the point we discussed earlier, like limited supply, this is helping to solve that problem.

[01:02:07] So it's another great story to highlight.

[01:02:09] And it's, it's fantastic to know that we're having products from that level of intentionality

[01:02:13] more widely available to people in the country.

[01:02:17] So tell a friend in Florida to buy some regenerative yogurt from our friends at, at

[01:02:21] painter land sisters, man.

[01:02:22] Yes, definitely.

[01:02:24] Let's also talk about little sesame.

[01:02:26] They just launched their first to market kids hummus cups, which, you know, I think

[01:02:30] that there's a, there's a whole category of food that I'm not super familiar with as

[01:02:33] somebody who doesn't have any kids.

[01:02:35] But like the kids sector is blowing up.

[01:02:37] It's huge.

[01:02:38] Right.

[01:02:38] I think it started with like the revamp of baby food.

[01:02:41] And then those consumers kind of shifted to more like, you know, regular kid food.

[01:02:44] And it's a, it's a very big emerging sector in the food space in general.

[01:02:48] And I think it's really cool to see.

[01:02:50] I think, I think this is the first that I'm aware of a region brand really taking like

[01:02:53] a kid approach that didn't start as a kid brand.

[01:02:57] Shout out to Wiley for visions and Serenity kids and some other baby food companies.

[01:03:00] But to go from hummus to kids, hummus is a different step than we've seen.

[01:03:04] And to have a super clean regenerative chickpea, you know, which is typically something that's

[01:03:11] heavily laced with glyphosate available for kids to consume is just really, really awesome.

[01:03:16] So really pumped about that one.

[01:03:18] Yeah.

[01:03:18] And I mean, I think we, we talk about all the time, this whole need to focus on health

[01:03:22] and wellness, but there's also this huge need to focus on the mother who's the main purchasing

[01:03:27] decision holder in the household and is really trying to feed their family with the best

[01:03:31] possible stuff.

[01:03:32] And like, dude, I just think about the trash that some of us used to eat for lunch.

[01:03:36] I mean, my parents did a good job, but like, yeah.

[01:03:39] Yeah.

[01:03:39] Like the stuff that was generally available to like the common kid, like is insane.

[01:03:44] Yeah.

[01:03:45] Being able to throw some, some cut up veggies and a really nice, freshly spun, like well-made

[01:03:52] regenerative organic chickpea based product like that into a lunchbox or to pull out of

[01:03:57] the fridge for lunch at home.

[01:03:58] Like, dude, that's a huge win.

[01:03:59] And that is, I think an awesome way for us to start interacting with more people on

[01:04:04] the product side just so they can learn about regenerative is through these, these kids

[01:04:07] based products.

[01:04:08] So huge, huge shout out to them.

[01:04:10] I think it's a really good point to like highlight the, I don't know what the right word is the

[01:04:15] challenges that mothers face, right?

[01:04:16] You know, on the one hand, you really want to ensure that you're putting really intentional

[01:04:19] foods in your kids' lunchboxes.

[01:04:21] But at the same time, it's like, are you going to buy a regular hummus, scoop that into a

[01:04:24] small Tupperware every day, you know, with some kind of like topper, you know, this is,

[01:04:29] it's a lot of work to have to do something like that on a consistent basis.

[01:04:32] And this is coming from somebody who doesn't have kids and really doesn't understand the

[01:04:34] reality of like how difficult all this is.

[01:04:36] So just caveat that.

[01:04:38] So to your point, to make this easier to deliver healthy nutrition to kids in their developmental

[01:04:43] ages, like so, so critically important and really, really cool to see.

[01:04:48] The last one.

[01:04:49] Oh, go ahead.

[01:04:50] They're going exclusive in Whole Foods, right?

[01:04:52] I'm just trying to remember.

[01:04:53] Yeah.

[01:04:53] I don't know.

[01:04:54] Yeah.

[01:04:55] I'm looking, I'm looking at it now.

[01:04:56] So yeah, that'll be launched exclusively in Whole Foods.

[01:04:58] It hits shelves November 1st and hopefully it'll be a lot more places soon.

[01:05:02] So shout out to them.

[01:05:04] Oh yeah.

[01:05:04] I'm going to have to pick one up next time I'm at Whole Foods.

[01:05:07] I wonder if they get their Herbie Jalapeno skew or the, dude, the lemon, man.

[01:05:10] The lemon is so fire.

[01:05:13] Anyway, onto the next one.

[01:05:15] This is the last one in the big news from like a brand perspective, but Diesel Turkey

[01:05:19] recently put out an analysis that indicates that their regenerative turkeys have improved

[01:05:23] nutritional profiles.

[01:05:25] And this again, goes back to everything we keep talking about, like the human health aspect.

[01:05:29] And specifically what they found during this study is that these regenerative faster raised

[01:05:34] turkeys have a better omega six to three ratio and more phytochemical antioxidants.

[01:05:38] Now, I don't think most consumers today really understand the importance of omega six to omega

[01:05:43] three.

[01:05:43] I do think that is kind of on trend and it's moving in the right direction.

[01:05:46] And I think even less people understand like the phytochemical and antioxidant, myself included,

[01:05:51] like I know that those things are good.

[01:05:53] I don't exactly know what that means for my body, but the fact that there's this growing

[01:05:57] body of research proving that regenerative practices create more human healthy products,

[01:06:02] I think is phenomenal.

[01:06:04] And this is the first I've seen in this category.

[01:06:06] So shout out to D-STOL and Regenified for number one, taking the time to implement these

[01:06:11] practices in Turkey.

[01:06:12] Number two, do the study.

[01:06:14] It's just really cool to see.

[01:06:16] And we need to see more of this sort of data and research out there.

[01:06:20] Yeah.

[01:06:20] And shout out to Utah State and Dr.

[01:06:21] Steven Van Vliet, who we've mentioned multiple times on the podcast.

[01:06:25] They're really like a leading, you know, activator of this research happening right now.

[01:06:30] We still have such a long way to go to make it like mainstream applicable to individual

[01:06:35] products and claims.

[01:06:36] But like, this is the, this is the dirty work that has to happen for us to get there.

[01:06:41] I thought it was super cool to see Diesel do something like this, especially after having

[01:06:45] our conversation with Heidi, because dude, that is a pragmatic family business and they

[01:06:51] produce turkeys multiple kinds of ways.

[01:06:54] They really deeply understand the different production processes and how it affects the economics

[01:06:58] of their business and how it affects the economics of production.

[01:07:00] And so for them to go through the trouble of trying to do this nutrient density analysis

[01:07:05] and be so bullish on tying product to nutrient density claims, that is like a, that's a big

[01:07:12] win for people that are very pro that because these people are not doing this for ideological

[01:07:17] reasons.

[01:07:17] Like these people are doing it because they think it's a pragmatic way to like get a marketing

[01:07:21] edge over the competition.

[01:07:23] Um, that that's meaningful to me.

[01:07:26] That statement brought me back to the thing I forgot like 40 minutes ago.

[01:07:32] And it's the focus on the term pragmatic.

[01:07:34] Right.

[01:07:35] And I think that when we talk about making the case for regenerative agriculture, what we

[01:07:39] fail to discuss often enough is like the pragmatic approach it is for business to create a resilient

[01:07:45] business.

[01:07:46] I really think that today it's important in 10 years, it will be imperative in 20 years.

[01:07:52] It will be critical.

[01:07:53] And if we don't start protecting these resources and assets, we're diminishing the potential

[01:07:57] long-term value of all of our businesses.

[01:08:00] Right.

[01:08:00] Right.

[01:08:00] Anybody who works in CPG because we're, we're, we're going to make more food, more scarce,

[01:08:04] um, way off topic now, but wanted to make sure I brought that back into the fold because

[01:08:08] you just, you just re-sparked the, uh, the thought of my brain.

[01:08:12] Yeah, no, I think it makes complete sense in your, in your spot on man.

[01:08:16] Um, and it's interestingly enough, kind of a good segue into something we wanted to make

[01:08:21] sure we did when we talked about the news this week, which was give a huge shout out to

[01:08:25] Molly Antos and Datascope Communications.

[01:08:28] Uh, actually don't know if they pronounce it Datascope or Datascope, but they have been

[01:08:32] an amazing partner to us as regen brands in our PR, uh, work with our recently released

[01:08:37] kind of ecosystem and launch.

[01:08:39] I mean, we've had, we got a Nosh live interview.

[01:08:41] We got a new help article in the naturalist podcast, the care more, be better podcast,

[01:08:45] meat and poultry, dairy food, dairy foods.

[01:08:48] Molly is a, she's a bad-ass and she's just all over my inbox every day trying to be helpful.

[01:08:54] Um, and so just massive shout out to them and their work in helping us get our word out about

[01:08:59] the regen brands ecosystem and what we're doing with the Institute, the coalition and capital.

[01:09:03] Um, so tied into news and just big shout out to Molly and her team over there.

[01:09:08] For sure.

[01:09:08] And Anthony's really generous when he uses this inclusive language, like we and us really

[01:09:12] AC was on the podcast and doing the articles and mentioning he's, he's killing it there.

[01:09:17] And it takes time, energy.

[01:09:18] It's also, um, for what it's worth, like it's not easy to necessarily put yourself out

[01:09:23] there.

[01:09:23] AC had to convince me just to do this podcast and he pokes me all the time to like, dude,

[01:09:28] do a LinkedIn post.

[01:09:29] I'm just not the type of person who really puts myself out there all that often.

[01:09:32] So shout out to you for not only like doing the work to do all that stuff, but also for

[01:09:36] being willing to put yourself out there on the stage and say like, Hey, this is who we

[01:09:40] are.

[01:09:40] This is what we believe.

[01:09:41] This is why it's different.

[01:09:42] And this is the work we're doing.

[01:09:43] So, um, I know for me, that wouldn't be easy.

[01:09:46] And I know maybe for you, it's a little bit more natural, but it's still work and it's

[01:09:49] still, there's a level of risk in doing that.

[01:09:51] So thank you for leading the charge.

[01:09:52] Yeah, no, I appreciate that.

[01:09:54] And I'll give credit to all the brands, you know, that we've had on and that work with

[01:09:59] us in the coalition and just interact with us in a very transparent and authentic way,

[01:10:03] because those communications give me a level of confidence on our work and our goals and

[01:10:10] our kind of proprietary knowledge in the space to go out there and be a champion for them and

[01:10:15] their work.

[01:10:15] And so, yeah, that's, that's where the credit is due.

[01:10:18] And I appreciate it, man.

[01:10:19] And, uh, it's fun.

[01:10:21] So love doing it.

[01:10:22] Oh yeah, man.

[01:10:23] Okay.

[01:10:24] So let's, let's segue into the last sort of like segment we want to have today, which

[01:10:27] should be a fun one.

[01:10:28] Um, you know, what, what are some of your favorite regenerative holiday gifts?

[01:10:31] You know, I've been gifting out regenerative products for quite a while.

[01:10:34] I actually just had a conversation with, um, Justin, the CEO of Kettle on Fire and he's

[01:10:37] putting together regenerative CPG packs that he's shipping to some of like his, which is so

[01:10:43] cool.

[01:10:43] Um, so yeah, shout out to Justin for, for doing that.

[01:10:47] But AC, what are some of your top like gifts that you give?

[01:10:50] Um, and just acknowledging this is late.

[01:10:53] You're going to get this out to the holidays.

[01:10:54] We apologize.

[01:10:54] Yeah.

[01:10:55] Um, use it for 2025 or buy for birthdays.

[01:10:57] So yeah.

[01:10:58] What are your faves?

[01:10:59] I wouldn't say these are my top holiday gifts, like all time, but I'll just, I'll talk about

[01:11:02] some of the things that I've gifted this year.

[01:11:04] And you know, since my girlfriend's parents don't listen to the podcast and it's going

[01:11:08] to be after the fact, I'm really just going to talk about what I got them, which was a

[01:11:11] little kind of trio of things.

[01:11:12] So, um, they just moved into a new place.

[01:11:16] So kind of housewarming slash holiday gift.

[01:11:18] First one was the, uh, two avocado oils from Westborn.

[01:11:21] So looking forward to, uh, to gifting them those.

[01:11:24] Did you get the holder, the ceramic holder thing to set up?

[01:11:26] No, no, no holder.

[01:11:28] They, they kind of downsized from a house to an apartment.

[01:11:30] And so limited, limited counter space for the holder, unfortunately.

[01:11:33] Fair enough.

[01:11:34] Fair enough.

[01:11:34] I mean, I appreciate the, the thought that went into that because you don't want to

[01:11:37] pressure them to have to put it out.

[01:11:39] You know, you know, they get smaller kitchen.

[01:11:41] That's, that's very respectable.

[01:11:42] I did consider it though.

[01:11:43] I looked at it.

[01:11:44] So Camilla knows I did.

[01:11:46] I did consider it.

[01:11:47] Um, so I got them some avocado oil from Westborn.

[01:11:51] Uh, we have not had brothers bond on the podcast, but they have a bourbon whiskey where they've

[01:11:57] sourced some regenerative grain for it.

[01:11:58] And I believe they've also done some work with kiss the ground and some donations and stuff.

[01:12:02] So, um, you know, Steve likes a nice bourbon, uh, my girlfriend's dad.

[01:12:06] So I got, I got them some bourbon and shout out to anytime I got them the gin and the

[01:12:10] vodka last year.

[01:12:11] So Maddie Taylor, don't be, don't be mad at me.

[01:12:13] Um, and then the last thing Steve makes a lot of, uh, sourdough bread.

[01:12:18] So I got him, which I believe is new to the Omen farms website.

[01:12:22] They're selling two and a half pound and five pound, like bulk flowers now, instead of

[01:12:25] just the pancake and bread mixes.

[01:12:28] So I got him some of the red fife white Sonora blend, which is like the best flower for bread,

[01:12:34] according to the Omen farms website.

[01:12:36] And I also threw some pancake and waffle mix in there.

[01:12:38] Um, just, just to add some fun.

[01:12:40] So those were, those are my three that I got the girlfriend's parents this year.

[01:12:45] Nice.

[01:12:45] I think that's a, that's a killer lineup.

[01:12:46] You know, I think that they should be stoked.

[01:12:48] And if they're not, they're bad parents.

[01:12:49] Um, I only say that because they won't listen to this podcast.

[01:12:53] I'll never say that to the faces.

[01:12:55] Um, so, and I shouldn't say bad, I should say ungrateful for the intentionality that

[01:12:59] wouldn't be.

[01:13:00] Um, so for me, you know, every year my family does a white elephant exchange instead of everybody

[01:13:06] having to buy somebody a bunch of gifts, we do like, you know, Hey, you know, 50 bucks

[01:13:10] or whatever.

[01:13:11] So last year I did, um, gut nuts, philosopher foods, gut nuts.

[01:13:16] And it was so cool because I think it was, I don't remember how many bags or drawers

[01:13:21] it was at that time, but maybe it was like four or five.

[01:13:25] And my grandmother who won like opened it up and we all tried them and I got to talk about

[01:13:29] how they're so cool.

[01:13:29] And there's so much more.

[01:13:31] My family's like, you're such a nerd.

[01:13:32] I'm like, just eat, eat them.

[01:13:33] Like they're freaking delicious.

[01:13:34] So yeah, that's so fun.

[01:13:36] Um, the year prior I actually did philosopher foods as well, which is the nut butters.

[01:13:40] Um, Tim, Tim's got my guy on the payroll, man.

[01:13:44] Let's go.

[01:13:44] He does, dude.

[01:13:45] He does.

[01:13:45] This stuff's too good.

[01:13:46] Also my wife, like she, I don't want to say she gets mad, but she's like, yo, where are

[01:13:50] the gut nuts?

[01:13:50] Like if you're not here, like she's like, Hey, get some more of those here.

[01:13:55] Um, but what I, what I actually do more during the holidays is like anytime there's a get

[01:13:59] together, I try to bring regenerative foods into the get together and I just talk about

[01:14:03] it.

[01:14:03] So I'm a huge fan of bringing big fish of foods, olives in, um, huge fan of bringing

[01:14:08] little sesame hummus in and pairing that with like Zach's mighty tortilla chips.

[01:14:11] And people are like, wow, this is like the crunchy chip.

[01:14:13] And I'm like, I know it's made from a real tortilla and Flint heirloom corn.

[01:14:16] Um, and I think having those conversations over food is just such a great way to educate

[01:14:21] people about why regenerative is important.

[01:14:24] Um, cause you get to do it like over a meal and it's so fun and so special.

[01:14:29] So a big shout out to all of the brands producing this stuff.

[01:14:33] Um, because it's, it's a really fun way for someone like me, who's an absolute food nerd

[01:14:39] to share what I love with people in a way that they can truly appreciate it.

[01:14:44] Um, another one I'll throw out there is long table.

[01:14:46] I've actually gifted long table to a buddy of mine.

[01:14:47] Who's like obsessed with pancakes.

[01:14:49] Um, and he like texts me back.

[01:14:50] He's like, dude, those pancakes, like the popcorn ones are insane.

[01:14:54] So thank you all for doing what you do.

[01:14:56] We appreciate it.

[01:14:57] And we, we try to share as much as we can.

[01:14:59] Yeah.

[01:15:00] And it's awesome just to have like, to remember that we're doing this work to consume actual

[01:15:05] food with other human beings.

[01:15:06] Like so much of the work we do is digital and to give these gifts or to bring things to a

[01:15:11] gathering and actually have them with other people and be able to talk about them.

[01:15:14] Like, I don't think there's probably much that's going to make you or I happier than

[01:15:17] that.

[01:15:18] Um, so, you know, just to wrap it up, like huge shout out to everybody that listens and supports.

[01:15:23] Um, this is a big year for us.

[01:15:25] It was a big year of a lot of change and a lot of firsts and a lot of wins.

[01:15:28] And we could not do it without the support that you all provide.

[01:15:31] So, um, we hope everybody has an amazing holiday and a great new year.

[01:15:35] And, uh, this episode will hopefully be one of the first things you listen to in the new

[01:15:39] year.

[01:15:39] And, um, we're hoping for a big, uh, 2025 for region brands and the regenerative movement

[01:15:44] and all of you consuming a lot of regenerative food.

[01:15:47] Totally.

[01:15:48] So this wraps 2024 recordings.

[01:15:50] This kicks off 2025 podcasts.

[01:15:52] Um, AC been a pleasure, man.

[01:15:54] Thanks for doing all the work you have to put this thing together.

[01:15:56] I'm looking forward to another big year in 25.

[01:15:58] Right back at you, brother.

[01:15:59] Thank you, man.

[01:16:04] For transcripts, show notes, and more information on this episode, check out our website, regen-brands.com.

[01:16:11] That is regen-brands.com.

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[01:16:39] the world of regenerative CPG.

[01:16:40] Thanks so much for tuning into the regen-brands podcast.

[01:16:43] We hope you learned something new in this episode, and it empowers you to use your voice,

[01:16:47] your time, your talent, and your dollars to help us build a better and more regenerative

[01:16:52] food system.

[01:16:52] Love you guys.