#6 - Paul Greive @ Pasturebird

Episode Recap:

ReGen Brands Recap #6 - Paul Greive @ Pasturebird

Episode Transcript:

Kyle Krull - 0:00:16
Welcome to The ReGen Brands Podcast. This is a place for consumers, operators and investors to learn about the consumer brands supporting regenerative agriculture and how they're changing the world. This is your host, Kyle, joined with my cohost AC. Let's dive in.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:00:34
On this episode we have Paul Greive, who is a cofounder and the Vice president of sales and marketing at Pasturebird. Pasturebird is supporting regenerative agriculture through their pastured poultry products that are raised using their proprietary high tech mobile chicken coops. In this episode we learn about Pasturebird's origin story, the company's North star of scaling pasture poultry to the masses. Why chickens actually should eat grains and how Pasturebird found an ideal partner in Perdue farms. Paul's one of my favorite folks in the space, and he is always dropping knowledge bombs. There's plenty to be had in this episode. Let's go. What's up everybody? Welcome back. We are really, really fired up about this episode of The ReGen Brands Podcast. We got my man Paul Greive from pasture bird. Paul was one of the first people that Kyle and I talked about when we were sitting at the coffee shop talking about The ReGen Brands Podcast. So pumped to have you here with his brother. Welcome.

Paul Greive - 0:01:31
Thank you, man. Right. Of course. Right as a helicopter flies overhead. Sorry about that. Good to be here, dude. I'm really stoked. I'm stoked. I've been looking forward to this.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:01:41
Well, Paul, just to get us started, man. I mean for those that don't know what pasture bird is at all, tell us a little bit about, you know what, what is pasturebird, what you guys do?

Paul Greive - 0:01:50
Yeah. So we've become like a pasture poultry company. Our whole thing is about producing really good chickens for meat. And our main differentiator is that instead of like a stationary housing system, we have a mobile housing system where the birds are living on the actual pasture and then we move them to a fresh spot every single day. That's been done for like 40 years in the US, even longer in Europe, but we kind of have been working on figuring out how to scale that and to bring it to the masses.

Kyle Krull - 0:02:19
That sounds incredible. And so coming right now, like how long have you guys been in business? When did you start doing this? Why did you start doing this? How long have you been working with chickens? Give us the background.

Paul Greive - 0:02:29
Yeah. So in 2012 we kind of like started as a backyard hobby. I was getting back to my rack. I had contracted Lyme disease as a as a sniper in the Marine Corps. And just like started feeling like crap and Paleo started to get pretty popular, probably 0709 something there. And I just never thought I would like start a food company or whatever, but kind of came back from my rack. My family was like, dude, we can't find like good chicken anywhere in the grocery store. So we just got fifty birds for the backyard and had no intention on becoming a business. I was living in Newport Beach with my wife. Had like a normal. I was like a normal guy kind of vibe, you know? And uh, well, it's sure not 50.

Kyle Krull - 0:03:10
California, OK. I mean interrupt, but I grew up in Southern California going like really close to Newport Beach. Like how did you even keep 50 chickens in those in that yard? Were you, were you allowed to do that from like a zoning perspective?

Paul Greive - 0:03:22
At one point we had like 5000 birds and people would be like, how do you have a farm? Because we lived in Corona Del Mar. They'd be like, how do you have a farm in CDM? And we'd be like, no, no, no, the farm is a. My inlaws place in Temecula and like we just lived in, we lived in Newport, but the farm was way out in the country. So it was gnarly though because I was working as a as a CPA and I was actually doing my my MBA stuff up at at UCLA. And then I was like we were kicking this farm off all at the same time. So it was like, it was so gnarly for a period, but it was like the thing where fifty birds like you know we thought we would have them for our family and I put a couple things up on social and. They all just kind of like sold out really fast. So then we did 100 the next month and then we did like same thing and then 200 and then 500. And then pretty soon about a year in, me and my brotherinlaw Jeff were like quitting our jobs. And we moved into this little 1700 square foot house with like nine of us. And we're like, dude, let's just reinvest every penny of profit and like, just give it a go, you know? So it was a, it was a really gnarly time for a while.

Kyle Krull - 0:04:32
That's incredible. Now and how do you go from backyard chickens to mobile units that, you know, you're working with Purdue and trying to scale this thing? Like what does that education curve look like? I mean?

Paul Greive - 0:04:48
Joel Salatin pioneered this like in the 1960s in the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia, so he's built this like portable. Floorless 80 to 100 bird system that you pull by hand and so we just geeked out on his stuff and we loved him and what he stood for. And so we we did those little hand pull systems for like the first three or four years harvested in the backyard like just you know there's probably 900 to 1000 pastured poultry farmers in the US and then several abroad too that have this like Joel Solatan style model. It's really low barrier to entry. It's really great for a small piece of land. But when you're out there for several years, like pulling these things by hand, eventually you just go, dude, there's got to be a better way to do this, you know? So then we moved up into like a larger greenhouse system. So we modified this greenhouse from Cobb Creek Farms and it's basically a greenhouse on skids that instead of like 100 birds, you could put 600 birds in because it was a lot bigger. And it's all the same impact because it's the same stocking density, same rest.

Paul Greive - 0:05:24
And it was just a lot more efficient. So our wheels start to turn. We're like dude if if we just made this big of an efficiency pick up like I kind of wonder what you could do if you continue to scale this you know and we had a we we still have a family brand called Primal Pastures. It's all about kind of gold standard you know only pasture raised, soy free certified organic all the way regen like really really dope but. What we were finding is that the price point required to be sustainable and, like, financially regenerative is so high that I was just like, dude, I didn't come up, you know, wealthy at all. I came up square in the middle class and, like, my parents couldn't have afforded the food that we were producing. It was just a bit of a bummer. And there was like, no distribution on it. It was like, all right, I feel like that's a cool brand. It's a cool mission. But we got really excited about this idea of making.

Paul Greive - 0:06:20
Yeah, nutrient dense, like regenerative meat, more accessible, more affordable. So that was the genesis of pasture bird. And we actually kind of like broke the two companies because they had two really different missions. And I sort of took me and Jeff took pasture bird and my other brotherinlaw rob and and our fatherinlaw Tom. They took primal and, you know, no bad blood or whatever. It was just like it's hard to run in two different directions under one umbrella, you know.

Paul Greive - 0:06:46
So we broke password, we went out and got some investment like 2015, and the mission really became like scaling past your poultry.

Kyle Krull - 0:07:23
And at that point?

Anthony Corsaro - 0:07:23
In time, Paul, did you know that that was going to have to be some sort of tech enabled deal or did you just not know that and you knew you wanted to scale it? I mean where, where was your head at? What were you going to try and do with that money?

Paul Greive - 0:07:34
Yeah, we were so naive. And this is common in the startup world, but like we didn't know any better. So we're just like, dude, let's just raise enough money to like build out of independent chicken company. You know, I think our first check was like 250K from the original angels. And we're like, dude, you know, for us it was like a lot of money at the time. And he's like here we go. Like we're starting to, you know, we're going to vertically integrate, we're going to do all this stuff. And then pretty soon to realize, no, you need more like 50 to 100 million to even think about your own, you know, slaughterhouse and Feed mill.

Paul Greive - 0:07:36
And that's not even really doing a great job with with that. So I would say it took us like two or three years. We had some early investors that were kind of like you sure you want to be like a chicken company, like maybe you should focus on the coops you know and we didn't even have the idea for this fully autonomous like solar powered coop yet. So it it was all iterative you know like it all we didn't have some Grand Master plan but we did kind of know it would make sense to team up with another poultry company. Pretty early on when we started seeing what it would take to like bring scale in, we just thought it would be a West Coast poultry company. We didn't really know about Purdue. I was not. I didn't spend a lot of time on the East Coast. So I didn't really think about them as a potential partner. But yeah, that all sort of fell into place in the right timing, you know.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:08:56
And what was what was like a light bulb moment on the tech side that that got you to where you are now where like this this chicken coop is like some something out of NASA like this is this is not your average chicken coop and we'll we'll put some links in the show notes but what was like the light bulb moment there.

Paul Greive - 0:09:12
OK. I would say there was two. So one was an actual realization that it sounds dumb, it sounds like a really simple, but the way that we always did it was a greenhouse and we would pull it long ways, right. So say you have like a. 60 foot by 20 foot greenhouse, we would pull those birds 60 feet every day. And that was just the way everything was oriented and that's the way everybody did it in the space. But the birds really like don't love walking that far. It takes a really long time to walk them that far. You know, they got like these little 4/5 inch legs, so walk them 60 feet like it's pretty, it's pretty time intensive, you know? But when we realize like, no, no, let's switch all the gear and let's move them 20 feet instead of 60 and the bigger that we make these coops.

Paul Greive - 0:09:26
Makes it so that we can afford stuff like automation, you know, lighting, feed pans. We can put solar on it. Like the more birds that we can spread that cost over the better really. So that was the big one. Like moving it horizontally instead of vertically was a was a huge S stupid, but it was such a huge game changer for like the space. And then the other big one was actually a a higher. So I'm not an engineer dude. I'm a kind of like a numbers guy and I was a farming, you know, on the boots, on the ground guy.

Paul Greive - 0:09:56
But I had this dream for like this large scale thing and I couldn't really crack the nut on how to do it. I was trying to figure it out, but this guy Dan Cody, who had managed poultry at White Oak, he'd spent time at at Polyface and then he was also at Cobb Creek at one point. So he'd like done the the pasture poultry thing for a good ten years. He's a biochemistry PhD. Many patents became like such a bright bright dude, you know, and we had a chance to bring him on as like our first really big key hire. And he shared the vision for a million birds a week raised on pasture and just healing like large amounts of of cropland in a crop animal integration. And so we just teamed up and he became like a huge part of the team. And he's super smart with all the engineering stuff and welding and bolts and just.

Paul Greive - 0:10:50
Yeah, all the things you gotta know to put something like this together. So Dan was like the huge breakthrough, I think for me and Jeff as founders, you know?

Kyle Krull - 0:11:26
That's awesome. So I'm gonna rewind a little bit and just talk. You know, more about where Pastor Bird's at today. You know what? What do you produce? Where do you sell? Where can people find Pastor Bird if they're interested in and want to, like, try your brand for the first time?

Paul Greive - 0:11:39
Yeah. So we started out producing in the Temecula Valley, which is like pretty much inland from Orange County, California. North of San Diego, South of LA, it's been a great home base and a great place to like launch a business, but it is not like a cost effective place to do farming. There's a reason why there's like no livestock down here at.

Kyle Krull - 0:11:58
All or do anything else for the matter.

Paul Greive - 0:12:01
Maybe not. Yeah. I don't know. Cannabis seems to be doing pretty well out here. But other than that, it's like it's hard to make money in agriculture, you know, little. And I'm not just.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:12:09
On my profile on that commodity.

Paul Greive - 0:12:11
Exactly, exactly so. We've expanded the business with Purdue. We've expanded the business out to Georgia, which feels like a really good pocket for doing costeffective production. It rains there, which is a big advantage. Land prices are better. We have a really good plant that we can operate out of there, but we do still have the ranch in San Diego County. And then we're looking at Northern California potentially too for some expansion stuff. So that's kind of like where the production profile is. We're really like we cut our teeth in food service even though it's not.

Paul Greive - 0:12:14
Where you would think for this type of a product, it was just because we were severely undercapitalized. We didn't have a lot of retail experience and like putting up bulk product into 40 pound boxes and selling it into great restaurants is pretty it's a pretty easy way to crack into the business if you have something that tastes good and eats good and all that. We're lucky that we do. I feel bad for like my grass fed beef brothers and homies where it's just like it's really hard when the product. A lot of times it's an inconsistent eating experience and it's like kind of tough and it's kind of gamey or whatever. So we're blessed to not have that problem within pasture. Poultry like the product eats head and shoulders above what kind of like the conventional stuff does. So we're we're lucky in that sense and we could break into restaurants and we're just finally now, so like 10 years really and we're finally breaking into retail and we're really excited to kind of like be.

Paul Greive - 0:13:11
In a lot of the specialty and hopefully some of the bigger guys within the next you know it's really like down to weeks at this point. So we're in jimbo's, we're in like Oliver's market up in the Bay Area, a lot of these smaller specialty guys. And as this grows like we would really like to see it expand into probably not you know the Walmarts of the world. But like I really do you know 10 years from now I'd love to be seeing this in like a Trader Joe's and some of the more just accessible affordable places where regular. Everyday people shop, you know?

Kyle Krull - 0:14:10
Yeah, we need that. We.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:14:11
Need that so bad for region? Paul wasn't one of your first breaks into food service like getting into the Lakers or getting into professional sports and selling them basically a better nutrient dense product for their athletes.

Paul Greive - 0:14:23
Yeah, I mean, it was actually like our first ever wholesale accounts. It's a gnarly story because we're all sports guys. I came up baseball track and field and my two brothers in law are both college basketball players. And it was just like. Yeah, it was. It felt like we left that world and we went into like the AG world, but the two worlds came back and collided. We got a call from Kate Shanahan, who you probably know, she, she plays in this world some as a like a dietitian nutritionist. She's a big speaker and stuff, but she was looking for the best like animal proteins, most nutrient dense animal proteins that she could find. This is back when we had Kobe and Steve Nash towards like the end of their career and they were into ancestral Wellness and bone broth and all that. And they found us. And I thought it was like a prank call, but they're like, hey, we're from the Lakers, we're interested in your meat. Can we come for a farm tour? And we're like raw, are you serious? And so like the team chefs came down and nutritionists came down and they like fell in love with the whole moving animals to fresh pasture and like the way we were doing it and all that. So they started ordering, you know, not for the stadium, but for the team. And that was our first ever time wholesaling because before that was all direct to consumer.

Paul Greive - 0:15:04
And we're like, bro, this is so dope. We got to go up and meet Tim Defrancesco, who was the strength and conditioning coach there, got to tour the, you know, locker room and watch him practice. Like we walked in and saw a D that was. So it was so dope to see some of that, like as sports guys. And then right after that, I don't know if you've heard of Gabe, Gabe Kapler, but he was a strength and conditioning coach at the Dodgers. And those two, like the Lakers and Dodgers, you know, they talk. So right after we got the Lakers locked up.

Paul Greive - 0:15:33
We started working with the Dodgers, too, and we got to go see a gone and like we walked it, you know, got to walk the bullpen and the dugout and like, it was just a it was a surreal moment, and it was such a vote of confidence, even though it wasn't a huge order or whatever it was like, this is pretty dope. Like these professional athletes that rely on this as fuel for their bodies, you know, like they're recognizing it. And a huge thing in the startup thing is just teetering on. Having confidence and then like, losing confidence. It was just a huge vote of confidence more than anything else. And then the only problem with that story is it ends. The Lakers had a franchise record horrible year that year, like the worst year the Lakers have ever had, the year that we worked with them. So it's like shit. Like hopefully it wasn't a chicken, you know?

Kyle Krull - 0:16:49
Definitely could not have been the chicken. Must have been something else.

Paul Greive - 0:16:52
Had to be the.

Kyle Krull - 0:16:53
Beef. So do have approval too. When when you like cracking the net for food service and you're walking in and you're like, hey, you know, yeah, the Lakers by this, this bird because it's the most nutrient den. So I'm curious, do you guys have any data or research that supported your nutritional profile versus like conventionally grown chicken at that time or how did you end up popping up on her radar?

Paul Greive - 0:17:13
It was kind of weird. There's some studies that are published about daily move pasture poultry in general and it shows like that's where you see a lot of the like 21% less. Saturated fat 50% higher, vitamin A&E three times higher omega-3. Like a lot of that comes from Barb Gorski's 2001 I think old actually study on daily move passion poultry. The funny thing is it's like know your audience so because we're cracking into food service. The second you start talking about nutritional profile, like, their eyes just gloss over. They could care less, you know? So like you have to talk about taste and flavor and texture and like moisture. Like that's what they care about. I don't think that's what Kate was really. We didn't have anything published at that time. I think she's so smart and she's been in this game for so long. Like, she knew animals that live on grasslands, not on their own poof would be healthier, you know? And so she just like, inherently knew that, you know, probably more than I did, to be honest.

Kyle Krull - 0:18:13
Right. Crazy.

Paul Greive - 0:18:16
She's she's she's legit. Like, look her stuff up. She's written several books. She speaks a lot. She's really, really good.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:18:23
Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 0:18:24
OK.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:18:26
Paul, let's let's go into like what, what is regenerative pastured poultry. We want to talk about kind of like difference between monogastric animals and non monogastric and just really want to especially for like super beginners here on better listening, like what do you guys do that's different, why is it regenerative and we'll start there and then we can kind of go go off that.

Paul Greive - 0:18:46
Yeah, I always say we're actually, we're actually, I would say we're not really regenerative yet. It's really. Simple and straightforward when you're in a ruminant animal, right, because there's no offsite feed coming in. It's just like a really straightforward and to me, regenerative is did you leave it better than you found it? You know, like super simple and it's real easy to look at, you know, a cattle ranch or sheep where it's just one farm and you can say like it is organic matter coming up? Is there more biodiversity? Are you sequestering carbon like it's real simple monogastrics gets? Real tricky because there's essentially like two sides of the operation, right? So you have your farm where you have the animals, but then you have where all the feed is coming from too. And so to me, I don't feel real comfortable saying, yeah, full circle regenerative Ag until you're healing soil on where you have the animals and where the feeds coming from and like I think what we're doing on the farm side with the animals.

Paul Greive - 0:19:17
It's certainly regenerative. Like I could show you soil samples dating back to 2017 or less than 1% on like an abandoned potato field that's over 3% now with amazing carbon profile. And like we've done a lot, you know, but I think there's still a lot of innovation happening in like the Gabe Brown kind of cropping world and it needs to keep happening, you know, so like our feed side is not figured out yet, you know, we're still buying. Not really conventional feed, but I wouldn't call it regenerative feed yet. So I don't really feel comfortable saying like Oh yeah, we're right there with the cattle dudes that are doing this full blown regenerative ag program, yet like no problems to them, bro. Like they're, they're really doing it. I think we're on the pathway, but I hate when people make these like monogastric regenerative claims, you know, because I don't think we're really there. I think the way that we're doing regenerative is by moving.

Paul Greive - 0:20:08
6000 bird coops to fresh pasture every day. So over the course of a bird's life, it's going to shit about 2 1/2 pounds right? In a stationary system, which is like 99.999 something percent of of poultry. All that poop is going into one place. And at best, maybe you're pulling it out once or twice a year and you're like spreading it onto a crop field, you know? And you could say that for it's not a knock against these guys. It's just the way it's been done for like 70 years in this country, you know?

Paul Greive - 0:20:35
And even a lot of the guys that say they're doing pasture rays and regenerative like they're still using stationary systems, which is just limiting the animals ability to like influence grassland or cropland, you know, so our whole thing is about, you know, how do we move those animals every single day. How do you spread that manure out over a grassland to to a system where it's like actually a benefit more than it is a liability. And I think the pasture poultry movement has figured that out. What we've kind of done special is we figured it out at scale so we can affect. Broadacre, you know and we're we're working on like corn and and cotton in wheat fields and stuff in Georgia and it's like that's super exciting to me where we can jump in a rotation with a crop and we can like actually be part of that holistic kind of like approach. But the feed thing still has a lot of room for improvement, you know. And so I don't, I don't like pretending like we're there yet or like we've arrived because I think that there's still a lot of room to to do better there.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:22:01
Yeah I love I love your humility. You're definitely regenerative on the animal side. So I'm going to I'm going to give you some props there. I think the feed thing is is definitely noted and you're you're totally right there and I respect the fact that you're you're that aspirational because you will figure it out and it'll we'll all be better off because of it. The the before and after pictures y'all post are just insane and we'll link some of the shows as well but it's it's not so just Congrats to you on that and. Can you share, you know what what are you actually feeding the animals and what is their diet like really consist of and how that compares to more conventional practices?

Paul Greive - 0:22:36
Yeah. So I always say like first and foremost because they're living on, you know, that every bird moves to a fresh spot every single day. So we we're working with the land and market guys, the ecological outcome verification and they actually just came out, they did a whole poll and I think they counted something like 30 different species of. You know, perennial annual grasses, Forbes legumes, like it's biodiverse, it's really rich. So first and foremost, it's like the birds are munching on as much green material and don't discount like the amount of bugs and worms and little micro insects that they're finding in that environment too. So that's like, I don't know, 30 different plants and then probably 20 or 30 different insects that they're getting after, but it's not a fully. Nutritional profile for like a modern broiler chicken, they can't just live off of grasses and bugs alone. It's a common misconception. Broiler chicken are all poultry species have what's called like a crop and a gizzard, and it's actually an organ that's meant to take in grains. It's stone grinds the grains and it sprouts them to make them more nutritionally available to their system. So where I would say.

Paul Greive - 0:23:22
Yeah, ruminate animal is really.

Kyle Krull - 0:23:46
Like no, I never.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:23:47
Repeat that. No, it's dope. That is dope. Yeah, I've never heard that. I've never heard that. Repeat that for everybody because I've.

Paul Greive - 0:23:52
Never. Yeah. So avian, avian species, like all poultry, have a crop and a gizzard and it's, it's, I wish I had one because it would make me tolerate grains a lot better than I do, you know? But it takes the grains it literally like it's stone grinds them. So inside of the gizzard is a bunch of rocks that the birds will eat in the field or that you can add it to their feed and then that actually gets like ground up inside of their body. Whereas you know, I don't have that so I don't get that ground up. And then it actually will sprout those grains inside their system before it goes into the rest of the of the digestive tract. So like grains are totally species appropriate for chicken. Where they're not for beef. And it's like a really common thing where we'll have people be like, hey, you know, do you can you guys do like a grainfree chicken? And it's like, well, it takes a lot of explaining and it kind of sucks, but it's like, you know, chickens are really not meant to never eat grains like, like beef cattle are or whatever. So yeah, in addition to like the pasture and the bugs and worms and all that, we do have a corn and soybean ration that the birds are offered. That's free choice. And they. And they eat like a good amount of that. You know, I don't like to pretend like.

Paul Greive - 0:24:30
They just eat a tiny bit like they eat about as much as a conventional bird would. The difference is because they're exercising so much more in our environment, it just becomes a lot more nutrient dense product where they're eating a huge varied diet of like grasses, bugs, seeds, worms, flowers and the grains. And I think that that makes a really different product, you know?

Anthony Corsaro - 0:25:20
And they're not living in their own shit. I mean that that's very important to me. Like we all consume 99.9% of the chicken we consume lives in its own filth, which is unacceptable.

Paul Greive - 0:25:31
I mean, it is what it is like, is it unacceptable? Sure. But is that like where the industry sits right now? Yeah, I mean, it's like an unfortunate.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:25:41
I don't think, I think.

Paul Greive - 0:25:43
You got a lot of people trying to do better. So here's where it here's where it went from like iterative to to revolutionary to me is like you go with, you know, an outdoor access system, you know, So what that is, it's a 600 foot long barn, 40 foot wide, 20,000 birds. And you add some doors to the side or you switch the breed to make it so they're going to access the outdoors like a little bit more. Like people say, you know, it's it's bullshit. Like, I can't believe they do that. Well, no. Like, it is an improvement, you know, like I I applaud anybody trying to do better for the food system. And like, is outdoor access better than no outdoor access? Like, hell, yeah, like awesome. You know, I totally support that. But it's not a revolution where I feel like moving animals to a new spot every day.

Paul Greive - 0:25:58
That is the revolution and like you go back 200 years pre antibiotics like it was kind of impossible to keep animals living in the same spot forever. Like our ancestors would have been like, that's not even possible bro. To like keep chickens or cattle or anything in a feed lot that was just not even medically possible. You had to move animals to a new spot all the time otherwise it would not survive. So this isn't new tech or a new idea like. Animals have moved forever. It's really only in the last 70 years that we're able to even keep them in one place, you know?

Kyle Krull - 0:27:04
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense and it's sort of like a general theme with regenerative agriculture. It's like all this innovation, but really it's like kind of going back to the way agriculture was you know pre industrial revolution, it makes a lot of sense. But you know when we just to touch on the feed, I got two more questions about feed. Number one like if you were to estimate what amount of. The dietary intake for a chicken is the feed versus forage. I'd be really curious to know that number. And then you mentioned corn and soy, why are those the two feed grains that you choose to supply for the the chicken?

Paul Greive - 0:27:36
I'll start with the second one first. So like it's just, it's what's kind of done in the industry. Primal Pastures does a no corn and no soy feed, it's kind of cool like it hits. Some of the marketing wickets, to be perfectly honest, I don't think it really creates a really different bird or anything, but people are looking for that kind of a product. So it's kind of interesting from that standpoint. With pasture bird, the goal being like costeffective pasture poultry, we are kind of like look, we want to build a system that moves 6000 birds to fresh pasture and then we want to kind of like just produce what the market's asking for. So we said we're sort of agnostic to breed and feed like we could go certified Roc. And the price is going to be X with a slow growth heritage breed or we could go you know no antibiotics ever in like a Cornish cross kind of breed and then the price is going to be X. And so far what it feels like is the market is asking for costeffective pasture poultry which is going to be kind of like that non-GMO, no antibiotics ever in maybe not the fastest growing breed possible but like a relatively commercialized breed and so.

Paul Greive - 0:28:19
Just for our company's mission statement of like making it more accessible, that feels like the right combo right now. But if consumers want to pay a little more, they want a little slower growth breed or they want like you know, different differentiated certified organic or Roc feed like dude, sign me up. Like I would love to produce that program. I just, I I want to move the needle at the end of the day like I want to be able to move the needle. So what was the first question though, because that I know I answered, there was two questions in there.

Kyle Krull - 0:29:13
Yeah. Well, I really appreciate that answer and it sheds a lot of light and like clarity on, you know, I mean #1, how many different options there are in what you're doing. You know, there's so many different ways you could change the breed, you could change the feed, you could, you know, do things differently to try to meet different market demands, which is really, really interesting. You know, it's not as simple as just raise the chicken, but the first question was what percentage of caloric?

Paul Greive - 0:29:35
You take.

Kyle Krull - 0:29:36
Is from forage versus feed.

Paul Greive - 0:29:40
I've heard estimates like 7525 feed versus pasture. I don't know bro. And it also depends like why look at calories? Why not look at nutrient, like nutrient intake? Why look at like when I sit there and I observe the birds, right? And we run like live feeds. So some days we'll just start first thing in the morning and we'll run a live feed till the end of the day. When I look at the birds, I see them foraging like 90% of the day and maybe hitting the feed pants for about 10. So it's like. There's a lot of calories in that corn and soy kind of mix, right? But there's a lot less nutrients. So it's like, I don't really know how to answer that question, but it's probably something like 75% of their calories are coming from the feed ration, 25%. But then nutrient density might be exact opposite of that, where I would hypothesize it's something like 7030 of their nutrition would actually come from the field and then less is coming from the feed, which is to me it's just like, why? These birds that are just living indoors, they're only hitting the feed pan like and even in the outdoor access system, you know, they're really not spending a lot of time outside. Maybe, you know, we looked at studies that are somewhere between like one and 5% of their life, kind of like optimal perfect free range outdoor access, what some companies would call pasture Ray system, where they're spending that like a small amount of their life actually outside.

Paul Greive - 0:30:40
Outside doesn't necessarily mean on regenerating pasture. Like, I've seen a lot of those outdoor areas that look like either barren, you know, denuded ground or maybe like a putting green dirt if they're spending time outside. If they're not spending time outside, you can get it to look really green and lush because you're not getting any any animal impact at all, you know? But it's a real weird game out there, dude. It really is a weird game. And like, I always just go back to.

Paul Greive - 0:31:06
Full respect and full props to anybody trying to like, do better in the food system. I feel like a lot of times we talk about how we're different or how we can like, see a positive vision for the future, and it sounds like I'm talking shit on what other people are doing. That's not like my intention at all. I want to bring the whole vibe up all the way, but it is important to like, be able to talk about how you're different too. So it's it's real. It's real tricky, you know?

Kyle Krull - 0:31:59
It's, yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:31:59
It's hard not to be like holier than thou and finger wag in this space when you like push region a lot. But I think it's important to always kind of end with like producers and consumers and and kind of the whole system does what it does because the system has incentivized like that behavior. So it's not like really any one actor's fault, like it's a system problem that we need to continue just to push and do innovative things and encourage it like like you just talked about. So I love that approach.

Paul Greive - 0:32:24
Well, and look, I always come back to this too, because a lot of times people be like, yo, like, why are you guys working with big egg? Like, aren't those the bad guys or whatever? And I always just answer that with like, big egg just gives people what they're willing to pay for, right? So for whatever, 50 years in this country, people ask big egg to produce cheap chicken and like, they did a really, really good job. So either like, no shade at. You know, the dudes that have been innovating and trying to bring costs down in poultry because we have really affordable poultry in this country. But now the thing that's cool is like consumers are asking for something different. They're asking for, you know, nutrient density and they're asking for something that's better for the planet. So guess what? Like big egg, you know, they start to like, turn their head towards that and they're like, oh, what's this? You know, this is this might be something that we're interested in. And so I'm really proud of Purdue as a company who could have just gone.

Paul Greive - 0:32:48
The way of green washing like so many other do, but instead they're like no, we want to produce like an authentic version of what people are asking for. And they came in and they teamed up with us and like major props to them, you know, and I hope more big Ag goes that way and teams up with like these grassroots companies to bring something really uniquely different. Like I think it's really, I think it's really important. I think it's just as important as all those backyard local farmers market style producers. I think we, dude, we gotta get big ag to like, adopt some of these regenerative practices if we wanna see it, like better in our lifetime, you know? I wanna leave a better system for my kids than what I had. So I think Big Ag has to be part of that conversation, you know?

Kyle Krull - 0:33:59
Yeah, I think it's huge that you acknowledge that. And you know, one of the things that I think Anthony and I are both pretty passionate about is how does regen scale? How do we get more adoption? And to your point, like villainizing Big AG isn't isn't the method. Because at the end of the day, they owned, what, 99% of the agricultural land in the United States. So working with them to me doesn't devalue them in China. It helps to bring their product up higher. Yeah, right. So, yeah, I really appreciate that sentiment of like wanting to work with Big Ag because at the end of the day like if you can get them to adopt these better regenerative systems, that's going to move the needle way faster than all the other operations. And that's not to say that everybody has to go that route, but there's so much more potential when you when you work.

Kyle Krull - 0:34:11
With partners versus, you know, trying to beat everybody else out and like we're competitively in this market, which it's really, really cool to see.

Paul Greive - 0:34:48
Well, and it's just, it goes to like the power of the consumer. When you demand something different for long enough, like then, you know, people start to listen after a while. So it's like, dude, I think the ultimate power rests in that dollar. And it's like every little decision, you know, you vote three times a day kind of thing. It's corny, but it's true, you know?

Anthony Corsaro - 0:35:08
Absolutely. I I force myself to go to Walmart and Costco every week, like on my Saturday, Sunday, Monday, like shopping run, because I want to see what the assortment is. I want to see what kind of options they're carrying because. We're not doing, we're not doing anything until there's like a heavy region like presence in stores like that that are serving like that. Mass consumer. Yeah I couldn't agree with you there more. And it's it's not about it's not about condemning anyone for what's happened in the past. It's about engaging the largest players to do better because we're screwed if we don't straight up and not push anything if we don't.

Paul Greive - 0:35:44
Check this out guess who the largest retailer in the world is for certified organic produce? Walmart or Costco? Walmart. It's Walmart. Like, I mean, say what you want, dude, but they're moving that volume and they're the ones that are going to move the needle. So it's like, if they want to play for real, I'm not saying like, we help them greenwash and like, do a lot of things that the industry has been guilty of in the past, but if they actually want to do things differently, like we're idiots to say, Oh no, we're holier than that. Like, we're not going to work with Big AG. We're this and that, like.

Paul Greive - 0:35:51
I don't know, bro. I just think it's really short sighted as the dudes in the regenerative and gals into the regenerative Golden Age, which is what we're in right now, to reject or shun these bigger companies that wanna check it out and try to do better. That's us. That's our role, you know?

Kyle Krull - 0:36:36
Absolutely.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:36:38
And. They have so much knowledge and resources and experience that like we can lean on so that that's another thing. But we could we could riff on this topic for a while I'm sure. I want to switch gears fall and kind of talk about where the Region Brands podcast, right. You've had all the success in food service, your D2C operations are killer, but you've now created a brand, you've created the packaging, you've gone out and talked to retailers, you've got kind of some some larger scaled retailers coming with a rollout. So can you just share like what's that process been like? What's been fun? What's not been fun? What have you learned? What's been surprising as you like?

Anthony Corsaro - 0:36:38
Build a CPG brand or a retail brand.

Paul Greive - 0:37:13
There's so much that you can talk about. Like I really enjoyed the process so far. One of the things that I'm seeing in the space A lot is potentially like a move away from attribute marketing. I don't know if everybody's gonna know what I mean by that, but the meat space is particularly guilty of going into attribute based marketing, which is your core claims in chicken, right. So you have cage free, free range, organic. And there's like this temptation to make regenerative just another attribute with just another certification. And it's like, I feel like consumers are asking for more like I really think consumers want story more than just sticker now. And so we try to really focus with our packaging on like yeah, whatever pasture raise would be like our core attribute I guess. But I I just want to elevate it above that and like tell a bigger story and kind of explain how these things are connected and it's like. It's hard to do that on one package or on one like point of sale display within a store. But I do think consumers are starving for that. Like you walk through the chicken aisle in the Walmart or even in, you know, Whole Foods and it's just like, well, it's just like bright, shiny, clear, you know, bright green attributes and it's like, you know, certified this, certified that, certified, blah, blah, blah. Like all the different attributes. And you basically shop by attribute. It's like, I don't know, I think people are exhausted.

Paul Greive - 0:38:08
I don't even think people know what any of these certifications mean anymore. And it's just like it looks like the sign of a NASCAR truck where I don't know, I just, I kind of hope that like, I understand the efforts to codify regenerative and build like these certifications around regenerative. But I think that that just, I think it falls short of the full regenerative story, which is like actually getting out and telling a bigger story and like brands have this unbelievable. Opportunity to tell a big story in this space. And I think that we're gonna really try to do that as opposed to just slapping attributes on and like hoping that that carries the brand, you know?

Kyle Krull - 0:39:18
When you say you're gonna try to do that, yeah, this is my first question. How, how do you plan to do that, especially in the retail space like DTC, you've got that opportunity. Food service, I'm not exactly sure what that looks like, like whether it's a menu blurb or not, but yeah, in the retail space specifically, how do you tell that story?

Paul Greive - 0:39:34
So we went really light on like certifications intentionally, like we could get, I'm not gonna name them, but like we could have gotten pretty much all the certifications out there. But we either have them and we're not putting them on pack, or we're putting them like on the back, or we're putting them on our website or whatever. Because I don't want it to be about that. You know, like when you look at a package, whatever it is, they say it's like 3 seconds or 4 seconds or whatever. Instead of guiding people straight into looking for the attribute that they're used to, we really try to like build. Romance copy on the front, condense like we worked with Pearl Fisher in in New York, which is I think it's like the best branding agency in the country and they had the same vibe. They're like okay, how do we get a story across in three seconds. And a lot of that is the is the brand aesthetic and like the intentionality that went into the logo and like the mark and we talked about instead of putting what you'd expect which would be like pastures regenerative, we said at the very top of the packaging we said mobile coupes. And daily rotation, which both of those like, it's not what you're looking for, you know, and you're like, wait, what is that like, what does that even mean? You know, people don't know. I mean they're not as into it as you and I are. So we're kind of like try to surprise people. And then when you open the package, it opens to full color, to full color photos from our actual farm. Like, not marketing shots. Like literally our birds inside of our real coops. And I think even that's going to be like, wait.

Paul Greive - 0:40:33
I would expect in this space every what everybody does this is where I will knock them is they'll like take a bird from inside of their COO or their their chicken house. They'll bring it out to like a grassy field with like a little stream and like a tree and then like take their Instagram shot and then they'll put that bird back in the house. You know and I'm like I'm not playing that game like we want to go radical transparency so we only show photos from real birds inside of our real coops with our real breeds. You know we like try to make a big point of that but. I think it throws people off a little bit because they're like, why is that bird, like inside of a shade structure? Like, why is there a feed pan right there? I thought chickens weren't supposed to eat grains. So it's like trying to break some of these preconceived notions with imagery and with, like, the romance coffee and I think just not sticking a bunch of attributes all over the package, which is kind of what's natural in this space, you know?

Kyle Krull - 0:41:52
Yeah, I'm curious from, I mean number one, it's a bold strategy to try to break out of the the certification game right now. But I think you're right. I think consumers are looking for more stories and they want to be more connected to where the food's coming from, where it's produced, how it's produced. I agree with that sentiment you mentioned you've got a little bit of retail traction so far, jimbo's and a couple other, you know Olivers, things like that. Do you, are you? Aware of what your performance is like versus the rest of the category with that strategy or is it still sort of too new to really understand how you're performing relative to the competition?

Paul Greive - 0:42:24
Yeah, let's do another one of these in a year cuz it looks like it's like hitting shelves in the next couple weeks kind of thing. So I'll be able to, I'll be able to tell you. You know we have really good feedback from in store managers and buyers and stuff like that, but you know nothing matters until you put it in the store and then a big piece is price point too. So it's like. How how you come in from a pricing strategy, I mean poultry is like a really price sensitive space, especially the fresh case. You know when you go into your value add products it's a little easier to margin up, but like in the fresh space you know the difference of a dollar a pound is like everything. So we were real intentional about how we went in on a pricing strategy. We really wanted to be somewhere between the free range and organic. You know we want to be in between those two. Whereas like traditionally pastured poultry is shot 2 acts on organic, you know and it's like that just it's cool and you got to do what you got to do. But it prices so many people out, we're like we're trying to come in kind of at or slightly below the organic price. And I think that that's going to help people to kind of make that transition from free range and jump up or even like I think we'll get some people that are in organic barn raised birds and they actually save a bug.

Paul Greive - 0:43:11
And they drop into something that's really past a raise and like working towards regenerative too, you know?

Kyle Krull - 0:43:44
I think it's a great call out and we saw that trend happen with beef. You know, people started to to focus more on grass fed beef versus organic beef because they realized you know you could get organic feed lot beef. You know getting organic paints of the grass supposed to eat or something that's moving on to after eating grass and that's going to be a healthier animal and that's what I want to consume so for. So I think that's a really cool sweet spot you've identified.

Paul Greive - 0:44:07
We'll see. I mean, like you said, nothing matters until you get into the store and you get a month or two of turns and velocity. And it's like there's also, you guys both know this. I mean you're retail guys. So it's like I'm learning so much about the ad cycle and how the calendars work. And it's like when do you go on sale or do you go on sale? And it's like, I'm a rookie with all that, you know, I'm a, I'm a guy that's way more comfortable like on farm than I am having some of these conversations. But you know, that goes back to building a team too. So we have some really great people. Involved that know that world too, so.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:44:40
Good, awesome. Good. And Paul, with all the growth you've had, we were talking tech, we're talking scale, we're talking significant business transitions. I mean you've needed capital to do all of it. You mentioned the Angel round that kind of started you off. You mentioned the pretty acquisition. But just take us through that full arc and maybe kind of how the capitals come together and like what commercial like traction you've created from each kind of round of capital.

Paul Greive - 0:45:02
Yeah, for sure. So. We we had kind of like a concept for scaling pasture and we entered some business plan competitions back in like 2014 or 2015. It was like you know, we just wanted to get some reps in before going and doing like a full you know Series A or pitch deck or whatever. And we won some of these business plan competitions and then we got invited up to the Pasadena Angels, which is like a local Angel group out here in SoCal. We just thought it would be some good pitching practice kind of thing and. They were kind of like, like, you're probably not going to get through on your first time or whatever. So we ended up getting through on our first time, but we had a 250K check sitting in front of us, like prerevenue for pasture bird. And it was like, OK, like, let's just kick this thing off with a bang, you know, this is like, remember, this is 2015. So it wasn't like the frothy environment that it is now, you know? And so it's like, dude, that's crazy, like, let's go for it. And so we split the two businesses legally. We put the money into pasture.

Paul Greive - 0:45:35
And probably rolled with that 250 like break even and even slightly profitable until we've really decided to push the gas on and there was like proof of concept. And so then I think we went back and we did probably a total of about two million. It was always within that same Angel group. We added like one or two Z here or there, but everybody just re upped the whole time couple $1,000,000 total over the course of three or four years prior to acquisition. We never even went to a Series A. It became real clear that it didn't make any sense for us to try to grow a bunch of revenue as an independent poultry company where we're buying chicks and feed and processing all off the shelf. And we're like so not vertically integrated. It was either look go raise like $100 million, you know equity and debt round and go put up your own manufacturing or buy a plant or whatever kind of like what what some others in this space have done or.

Paul Greive - 0:46:34
Yeah, exactly. Cooks, it cooks. It kind of went that route where it was either either go that route or team up with somebody who's already in the space. And like I said, you know, I thought it would be a West Coast poultry brand, but in about 2018, Ryan Purdue, who's actually like the 4th generation, he was, he lives in LA and he runs the the pet division of of Purdue and he is actually really interested in regenerative just as his own thing, he came out. As a connection to one of our investors kind of like asked insanely intelligent questions to the point where like, what the heck, bro? Like you're obviously thinking about who is.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:47:41
This.

Paul Greive - 0:47:41
Guy, yeah, what the, what the world, you know, and we just got to know him. We kind of like enjoyed just the the relationship there or whatever. And then they became an investor in our very last round and about six months later, you know, we got to know the executive team and like we really got to know. The Nyman Ranch acquisition, which was done in 2012, that was a big deal for us because if we were going to work with these guys, you know, this is like our baby and I care about this way more than just the the financial impact of it. Like I got to know that whoever we team up with is going to do it justice and like take it and really run with it, let us stay as part of the vibe too. So we got really comfortable with the team. I think they got comfortable with us and it was just like, bro, this thing plugs in so good to what they're already doing. Purdue is the largest certified organic producer in the country. They've pioneered like the new antibiotics thing. They acquired Nyman and did a really great job with that acquisition. I think they're also panorama meats. A lot of people don't know that, but that's one of the largest pasture raise certified organic beef companies in the country and so it was really.

Kyle Krull - 0:48:49
Clear. Like if we're going to work with somebody.

Paul Greive - 0:48:51
We want to do Purdue, yeah. Norcal. And they're also in the Midwest a bit too. Really, really great. Really great production. Yeah. So shout out to Purdue farms for.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:49:02
Really, really doing this. Like, for real. Like, let's give them their flowers. Like, that's awesome. Like, thank you Purdue Farms for leading the way. Like we need better animal ag and like they have put their money where their mouth is. So like, shout out to Purdue Farms, that's awesome.

Paul Greive - 0:49:16
It's not easy, dude. Like, they're in the trenches with this thing and it's expensive and it's hard. And it's like it would have been way easier for them to just take their stationary houses, you know? Plant some pasture outside, take some of those same pictures and everybody else does and just call it regenerative and pasture raise. And like they're not doing that, bro. Like I really respect that, you know?

Kyle Krull - 0:49:39
That's really cool. So you know, you mentioned the retail forays just beginning. I'm curious like what else is in the future for pasture that in terms of like products like what, what, how many skews do you have at retail right now? Are you looking to bring more products to market in different formats? And then from a retail perspective, like what's the growth curve look like? Like how many doors do you think you can support today? How many will you be able to support next year and kind of walk us through that future outlook?

Paul Greive - 0:50:04
Yeah. So we open with six skews. It's a really traditional like fresh chicken case, whole log, boneless press, boneless dye, drumstick, chicken tenders and the chicken wings. It's like a really normal set that you would put up into retail and that's what we wanted to open with. Yeah, it feels like a space within the retail shelf that has little to no innovation and a place where you can make a splash and a place where like Purdue, I mean they really play there. So we wanted to leverage that. We're definitely. You know, online retail has been massive for us too. So we're like not forgetting about our food service or online retail and we're doing some pretty innovative products for online retail either through passionbird.com or we have a lot of online retail partners as well. So that's all that should all be hitting within like this year, 2022 calendar year. But the focus is definitely going to be on getting a branded retail program out to like as many doors as we can support. So I actually don't even know the exact number of.

Paul Greive - 0:50:37
Doors that we're in or working towards, but the vision is you know moving up to that like million birds a week is the true target that affects you know in rotation something like 50,000 acres. It would be like 10,000 acres at a time kind of of poultry. But we really see this as like an integrated system with cropland. So 50,000 a 100,000 acres, Georgia feels like a great place to pioneer this. It lets us go 12 months a year production. There's lots of cropland that needs nutrient badly. A lot of that good sandy soil, which works really well for us as opposed to like the heavy clay soils. So it really feels like we can make a mark. And a million birds a week is tiny, bro. I mean, chicken's huge. That's one exciting thing about this category is it's like 9 billion birds a year.

Paul Greive - 0:51:35
Domestically, and again, do the math, like 2 1/2 pounds of chicken shit per bird. So, you know, you times that out. The amount of opportunity that lies within the chicken space to like, move that chicken manure over croplands is just insane. So like, we would like to find a financial model that really works, that really pays the bills where it's operating, you know, fully in the black. And it's like we can take this out, we can heal a lot of cropland in this integrated system. So think about.

Paul Greive - 0:51:59
Yeah, 1000 Acre Cotton Farm, our vision is really to put like 200 of that into poultry for three years, transition it to organic during that time and then move on to the next 200 acres and plant your cotton and your, you know, your cotton rotation behind that. And and I really think that there's pilots of that that are that are going to work. You know I'm really excited for that.

Kyle Krull - 0:52:51
That's so cool. And I love the I mean, I can just tell by your level of excitement about the impact you can make seems to be the thing that you're most excited about. It's not the number of doors. It's not about the financials, it's about like how big an impact this business can have on the environment and that's so cool to see. And I think that cotton is, I think it's one of the largest from the land usage perspective in the United States. It's one of the biggest ones out there and it's typically like very degrading the way it's used. So to to kind of pair what you're doing with cotton production I think is incredible and it's really like. Inspiring to see that we can make that kind of change at that scale. So good for you. It's.

Paul Greive - 0:53:26
Not limited to any broad acre crop, you know, it's like we're on another farm in Georgia that it's been in hay for 30 years. So it's a, it's a cow calf guy. He runs like 400 pairs, 507 hundred acres, something like that. And he's always maintained a hay field. Yeah, a couple 100 acre hay field to like feed his animals through the winter. And in order to keep that hay in production, like, he's going with synthetic fertilizer. But ever since bringing in the poultry, it's nuts, bro. Like, I posted some videos to my LinkedIn about this green fertility strip that like, comes in behind the chicken. And he has not had to use synthetic fertilizer for like 2 years, ever since he started this program. So I'm like, there's so many applications when you get the thing to scale, whereas like before, when you're moving 100 birds at a time, that's dope. Like, I love it, but you're not.

Paul Greive - 0:53:48
You're not able to like impact crop land, whereas now with scale we can start to actually have a big impact on that.

Kyle Krull - 0:54:24
Totally. And I'm really curious from like a financial impact for him, how much would he typically spend on those chemical inputs and how much, I mean, do you lease the land from him during that time period or does he not charge you because you're fertilizing his fields? Like what does that look like?

Paul Greive - 0:54:39
I don't know. I think it varies quite a bit year by year on what he spends. But you go, so the delta is like he was spending before and now we're paying him. So it's like you're like making it up, you're saving money, but then he's also putting money in his pocket too. And it's like, it feels like a regenerative solution, you know what I'm saying? It's like a win, win.

Kyle Krull - 0:54:57
Yeah, totally. And.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:54:58
It's. It's about giving more producers like a key turn solution like that. That's like, hey, we have this piece of technology that allows you.

Paul Greive - 0:55:05
To.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:55:05
Turn this instead of just like saying hey dude why don't you, why don't you do a chicken operation and then he's got to do 1000 things to enable that. It's like Nah, do we got we got a turnkey do you or you just put the keys in the car, chart the ignition and hit the gas pedal.

Paul Greive - 0:55:18
I mean, I feel like we're close to that, you know, still we've iterated this automated range coupe for, I don't know, five years. It's been like in the works, you know? It feels like it's to. It's where it is ready to like mass produce but then every time you know every time it's like you find a little thing here or there. But no it's it's very close bro. Like I think it is ready to scale and and people are really excited about it. Like the funnest thing to me is when you see, yeah Purdue guy or like an old school chicken guy, when they walk into the house and it's like it smells really good. It looks good. The birds are all running around and foraging and it's like.

Paul Greive - 0:55:27
You know, you see the spot right behind from yesterday and you see all the shit on the ground and it's like all nice and fresh in there. And it's like it's just this mind blowing thing for somebody who's growing up for 40 years with, you know, 40 parts per per million ammonia. And it's like you're just used to that and you don't even think twice, you know? And then and then you see this and you're like, whoa, this feels like the future and the past, you know, to to your point, Cole.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:56:19
Love it, love it.

Kyle Krull - 0:56:20
Super cool.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:56:20
Dude, this is, this has been amazing. Let's wrap up with our last question, which is what we ask everybody, which is just how do we get to regen brands having 50% market share by 2050, but what do we have to do to enable that?

Paul Greive - 0:56:32
We just, there's probably good stuff shared on this all the time, but what I would key in on is like as producers we have to meet, we have to meet the consumer in the middle somewhere. And like, I'm not the dude that's going to wait for the government, right? Like, I I'm not the salvation by legislation. Like, oh, bail us out, subsidize us like this and that. No, that's fine. But it's not my vibe. Like, consumers need to spend a little bit more, but producers also need to figure out how to produce in this, like accessible, affordable. And that applies to every single, you know, food and fiber product that's out there. So I just think as producers, we have a lot of innovation.

Paul Greive - 0:56:44
That can happen. That helps us bring this to like that 50% market share, like you just said, I love that target. Like that's pretty audacious, right? But I think asking the consumer to bear the whole burden is really unfair by just paying more, you know. And I I think waiting for the government to solve this for us is like going to take several lifetimes too. So I really think as producers and as brands also, but really like on the producer side, there's so much room for innovation for us to like practice not to, you know.

Kyle Krull - 0:57:41
Yeah, agreed. That's an interesting perspective. And I don't think out of all the answers we've heard so far, you're the first to mention like the onus, the producers need to take on to make this accessible, to make it scalable. Because, you know, it's great if, you know the top 1% of earners can afford a regenerative organic food, that's awesome, but exactly going to be what moves the needle.

Paul Greive - 0:58:01
Yep. Yeah, exactly. And.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:58:05
To be comfortable with trial and error, right? Just like we said, enable them with the technology. It's like we're not going to get this right the first time. We're not getting it right the 100th time, right. We got to enable people to to have the means or the the, the bandwidth, whatever it is to just try until they do get it right.

Paul Greive - 0:58:20
100%.

Kyle Krull - 0:58:23
Madam well, Paul man, it's been closer to meet you. Really cool to hear your story. Love everything you do in Pastor bird. This has been great, Anthony. Anything else you want to close with?

Anthony Corsaro - 0:58:33
No, Paul, where can people find more information on y'all's work and where can people find you guys?

Paul Greive - 0:58:39
Check out patch bird.com. We've done a lot of work on the website recently and like there's some pretty cool stuff happening on there in that. For me, I'm not really too into the social media thing, I just pretty much put stuff on LinkedIn and that's it for me. So if you want to connect, that's a good spot.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:58:54
Yeah. You are the man, brother. Appreciate you, mucho. Thank you so much. You're doing amazing stuff.

Paul Greive - 0:58:59
You guys do, man. Thank you.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:59:05
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