#34 - Jon Sepp @ Roam Free Ranch

Episode Recap:

ReGen Brands Recap #34 - Ready-To-Eat Regenerative Bison - (RECAP LINK)

Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with AI and is not 100% accurate.

Kyle Krull - 0:00:16
Welcome to The ReGen Brands Podcast. This is a place for consumers, operators, and investors to learn about the consumer brands supporting regenerative agriculture and how they're changing the world. This is your host, Kyle, joined by my cohost, AC, who is going to take us into the episode.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:00:33
On this episode we have Jon Sepp, who is one of the Co-Founders of Roam Free Ranch. Roam Free Ranch is supporting regenerative agriculture with their ready to eat bison, snacks and meals. In this episode we learn about Jon's journey expanding the operation from just 240 acres to over 10,000, plus how he's managed his herd regeneratively that whole time. Jon also tells us why the company has focused on building a brand and selling ready to eat products versus just selling bison meat. Let's dive in. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The ReGen Brands Podcast. Really excited day to have our friend Jon from Roam Free Ranch joining just me. Kyle's out at a wisdom teeth appointment, but welcome Jon.

Jon Sepp - 0:01:20
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:01:22
Absolutely man. We're we're excited to chat with you. For those that don't know the brand, aren't familiar, tell us a little bit about what y'all make, where people can find your products and just the the brief background.

Jon Sepp - 0:01:34
Yeah, no problem. We are a regenerative bison ranch that makes food products out of what we grow and we have two main product lines. You know, we have a shelf stable product that's similar to jerky and sugar free product. Made with grass fed grass finished regeneratively, raised bison. It's really simple. It's just just bison meat and spices and there's four flavors of that And then we have a few products that are in the ready to eat category which are precooked using a variety of different methods but mostly sous vide ready to go. You you can buy them right out of a refrigerated section in Costco or or a few other places and. Pop that in your microwave oven or on the stovetop and it and it's ready to eat right away. So we've got traditional chili that's like a Northwest version. We have Bison Chili Colorado that is currently in Costco right now. And we have one other secret product. I can't tell you what it is yet, but it will be available. It'll be available in two months coming out. We're launching out, launching another one that that you'll see come across Costco shelves at that time, so.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:02:50
Amazing the The chili skews are phenomenal. I've had them at Expo WI probably had a little too much. I probably had a little more than I should have, but they were they were super good and very tasty.

Jon Sepp - 0:03:02
Oh, thank you.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:03:02
Absolutely, Jon. Take us, take us back to where this all started. I believe you have a military background that backgrounds kind of been interwoven into into the story of this brand and just all that. So take us back to how it all started and how we got here.

Jon Sepp - 0:03:16
Yeah, sure. So well to go even before that when I was really young, I just everybody always asks how did you get into raising bison because that's that's where the brand started is it stems out of the ranch. So we started as a ranch 1st and as a young boy I'd always just been fascinated with them. I I grew up in a military family and was not my family was you know I was one generation removed from being involved in agriculture. But really liked the animal first before I knew you know what was to come. And so I served some time served nine years in the military and during that time and prepared myself when I got out to start raising bison, which is what I did in in late 2013. So I started a ranch here in Montana and. At the time it was very cheap and and easy to move here. Land was inexpensive and of course Yellowstone came out and it's become quite quite a different story of of kind of a a land grab everybody wants to move here and it's actually it's it's caused a lot of challenges and trying to grow ranch now. So it's interesting that the the TV show talking about the struggles actually created a struggle yeah but so so that's where we started. I met Brittany and then.

Jon Sepp - 0:04:07
Very early 2017 we just just running a ranch is extremely difficult. It's very high volume low margin business. You know I was not coming from place of inheritance so there was no land based to operate on that and and when I first started I bought 240 acres which is really just nothing. It's a it's a pin dot in Montana especially with the ranch it's it's not enough to make a go. So I was running it as a hobby.

Jon Sepp - 0:04:37
And I and I had a side job but once I there came an inflection point where I had to make a decision and and and that's when I met Brittany and we decided look we're going to go all in on this and have a ranch, grow the ranch and we quit our side jobs. You know she was working at Boeing. I was running a fencing company like building plants for ranches. And so we we exited both of those and and went went all in on the bison and. Lease more ground, bought some more ground and that's where it brought us today, launched the brand, came out with jerky and then a couple years ago is when the jerky was doing well, we decided like here's another area that that you know seems under service that people it seems like a good spot to bring bison and introduce that to the masses and that was the ready to eat category and that's been doing well as well. So we've got, yeah we're running, running both those lines now.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:05:56
Yeah, we definitely need to have way more regenerative products in both snacking and ready to Eat. So excited to dive into those. Couple of questions on the origin story. Are you from, are you from Montana originally? Are you from that area? No, I grew up in Norway actually. OK my.

Jon Sepp - 0:06:12
Dad wasn't was in the military and OK, there's not there wasn't a base as a kid when I grew up there. But you know, if I'm gonna call anywhere home, it would probably be that and it. When I came to Montana, when I was in the military, I had served here, you know, as like home base a few times. And it reminded me a lot of being in Norway, not a lot of people. A lot of opening, a lot of open wilderness and you know it fit the price point and where I wanted to start ranching at that time. So I'm not originally and right now our ranch is located in where I first moved was the center of the Flathead reservation. So that's within the boundary of the CSKT tribal nation, which is the confederated Salish and Kootenai tribes, so.

Jon Sepp - 0:06:37
The the ranch sits within the middle of that. It's a unique situation called an open reservation in Montana where there are parts that were homesteaded before and after it became a reservation. Some of it was sold some some of it changed hands. And so it's it's somewhat fractured and that the the land that we operate on now is not tribal but within those confines. So it's a another layer of an interesting, you know, part of the story of the ranch and where we live and.

Jon Sepp - 0:07:01
You know how we participate in land stewardship here and you know regenerative wasn't a word when when we had I had first started this, but at that time it was called you know it was rotational grazing, then it was holistic management. Now it's regenerative which is a bit of a combination of both both those concepts but it's it's all it's getting at the same, the same. You know fundamental basis of the the concepts behind returning carbon to soil and you know selfishly that's good as a rancher because you have you can grow more grass, stock more animals and make more money but equally benefits you know not only the consumer with a healthier meat product but of course environmentally a longer term environment, you know better environment for everybody. So it's kind of a win all around but. It's nice to see it really come into vogue and the word regenerative has caught on quite a bit and so we hope to continue to see people, you know, I'm sure 5-10 years now from now it will evolve into a different name, but it's going to continue to be the same thing. So Yep.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:08:40
Yeah, yeah, Love it, man. What? What was your first exposure to bison? The animal you said that you kind of had felt fallen in love with them or there was like a real attraction there. Just talk, talk to us about that. That's interesting to me.

Jon Sepp - 0:08:52
Yeah, I actually have a really funny home video my parents found the other day. It's really, really old, like VHS video. I was four years old and this was just before my family moved in Norway. We were moving across the United States like coast to coast. We moved, yeah, gosh, it's probably 6/14/16 times before we moved to Norway at a young age. And so it would, you know, sometimes we were moving twice a year. On several of these moves, going coast to coast would stop through Montana, you know, during the summers when we were out of school. And there's a few parks between here and South Dakota that just kind of have like open areas. You can go see bison. Yellowstone of course is the biggest one, but there's there's a few other smaller ones and and in one of these smaller parks. I, you know, my, my parents had gone out looking for Bison, wanted to show this to me and my brother at a young age just as an opportunity, you know, to see something new and and kind of, yeah, heat of the summer drive in an old car. And we came across this big bowl, which was late in this in the year, but, you know, during rut and I kind of laughed now that I raised them, You know, I would never allow my, my parents or anybody to do this, but, you know, typical tourist thing.

Jon Sepp - 0:09:41
They got out of the car. It was in a in a kind of a Prairie setting, so they're a bit far away. And my mom walked up to go get a picture of, you know, one of these bison and my dad was yelling at her. Anyway, she got this picture and and then came back to the car and me and my brother thought this was like so cool that my mom just like totally went up and did this.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:10:35
That just sent it with a bison.

Jon Sepp - 0:10:38
Just a moment that that stuck. Now, of course, you know you're gonna get made fun of and everything these days, but but this was like, you know, in the 80s where you could go and you'd throw like bread to the Prairie dogs and that was normal, You know, you couldn't do that.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:10:50
Disclaimer though, don't, Yeah disclaimer for our listeners, don't do that with biceps, they will no worries.

Jon Sepp - 0:10:55
You know, don't do that now, right? But it was an impactful moment in my childhood and just the animal was impressive. And I remember, you know, wanted to know more about them and learned all about them and, you know, heard that. Just so many things for my parents and it was just such a moment our family for a long time. It kind of was an impressive moment on me that I just had always liked the animal and I liked animals in general. I I had always wanted to be a veterinary veterinarian growing up, obviously went, you know, in a much different direction, but it had always been your pseudo veterinarian now. Yeah, yeah, I'm a veteran. Different but close, right? And so so anyway we.

Jon Sepp - 0:11:07
You know I I just wanted to have bison and and that led for a long life path of of where I'm at right now that like I I bought some as a hobby when I got out of the military. I had prepared when I was in the military for nine years saved bought the land and then you know continue to step into what it is now, which is a a large scale you know commercial regenerative operation to feed people in a responsible way. So that's what we're doing.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:12:00
Yeah, well, good for you, man. That's that's amazing. And. You know, I think that animal haven't been around it a little bit. I'd like to, I'd like to spend more time. You know, cows are cool, but it's it's a much different experience And when you learn about how bison were really a part of the Native Americans and the indigenous peoples, even spiritual cultures more so, even just than the food culture, it makes sense because like it it's just a captivating it's a cool, it's so cool. I love bison. They're just very, very, yeah.

Jon Sepp - 0:12:30
Absolutely. Yep. Great history. And, yeah, continuing to make history, so.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:12:36
Yeah. So talk to us about, you mentioned at the time regenerative wasn't really a word. When you and Brittany really put your foot on the gas with this thing was the vision. You know, there's some, there's some copy on the website about she's she's really into health foods. So are you, you know, like what where did regenerative come into play versus just having a bison operation and how did that dance together?

Jon Sepp - 0:12:58
Yeah, it was well before regenerative A holistic decision even, or or excuse me, a selfish decision. And before I'd even met Whitney, I had the ranch and I bought what I could afford. The name of the road where I first bought was in a pretty remote spot out here called Wilkes Gulch. And if you know what a Gulch is or or you know the expression dry Gulch, if you've ever heard, that means like you fooled somebody. You've sold them in snake oil, right? And I I knew somewhat of what I was getting into, but I bought a very dry patch of ground here, very fragile and, you know, in a Gulch. And when I first started on my own, I was just looking for ways to like, optimize because, you know, you run out of grass quick, you run out of water quick and what what could I do, you know, at that time? And this is like 2013. What could I do at that time to optimize this so that I'm getting better yields, more animals, increasing profits, How do I pay for it, right, That's the hardest part and that that was called rotational grazing. And then probably 2015 came on the the stage holistic management.

Jon Sepp - 0:13:47
That was another name of what it was called. And so it converted to that. There was a little more science as people started to invest themselves more into it. And I had learned about this at a local bison producers meeting, you know, and this was in, in 2013, just rotational grazing. And that's been around since, you know, World War Two and beyond of even being like a government program that we've paid ranchers to do for for almost 100 years, right, because there's people have recognized the benefit of.

Jon Sepp - 0:14:09
Moving animals. But the science gets better every year. And what what it really turns out to all be is to you know your people are finding ways to move domestic animals referring to non bison within North America. How bison moved. So just just by having bison alone solves half the issues of you know, what the science is trying to prove.

Jon Sepp - 0:14:39
Right now but but there is a component that's missing to how bison were were moved and not not for us but for a lot of people in in the United States is the predator movement we have. We have a lot of predators on the ranch, wolves, Grizzlies.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:15:21
Wow.

Jon Sepp - 0:15:23
And you know, scavenger predators too. Not that they move the animals, but certainly if they're moving the bodies of animals that have been eaten, those smells will cause them to move as well, so. That that is the core of the science and you can what people have been trying to do for years and years is show quantifiable data around how does that help, how does that movement help you And that's a long way to say regenerative in the brand has has been there since the beginning in the ranch. It's what bison are and it's what all. You know when you really refer to regenerative agriculture and dry land in America, right, So pretty much everything West of the Mississippi, unless you're like maybe stacked right on a river. But even I'd argue that is to, you know, you are mimicking the the movements and patterns of bison and you can either be very close to that or very far away from that. Like there's there's brands that you'll see that obviously walking around Expo W regenerative is a buzzword.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:16:21
They'll play on.

Jon Sepp - 0:16:22
Everything from. Coffee to bananas to to you name it like things that that that are not regenerative and could never be right by by their fundamental nature. And so I don't, I think it's still honorable and great. I I actually don't discourage it. I think it's good that those brands adopt those things. They're clearly trying to target a consumer and to use branding. But what it does is reinforce to the consumer and this is a new perspective and way that you can be looking at food and so it helps.

Jon Sepp - 0:16:23
Our brand in particular for people to want to investigate, look further into that and learn about that and make better, you know, eating decisions which which benefits you know as we said everything up chain from there. So yeah, that's that's a long way to say it's been, it's really, it's the core of the brand, it's what the brand is about, it's what Bison are about, you know if you look into their history. The whole reason we're having so many problems is the removal of of keystone species from the land, largest of which being bison in the West and and it's also what created the fertility. So people can can, you know and you can either choose to use that stored Bank of fertility in the United States for good or for bad and you see. Pretty much both ends of the spectrum being pretty extreme right now there's not not really anybody in the middle. So you're either monocropping and creating like you know like kind of chemical laden like ones one narrow channel, non biodiverse vegan foods or you see people like on another spectrum saying like we want biodiversity that mimics the habitat that they should be grown in and feeding people in a way that's going to mesh better with their biology.

Jon Sepp - 0:17:37
And that's where we're at. It's just a place of massive extremes and I think it's only going to continue to to increase in food in general. And I noticed those trends. It's a it's an extreme fracture at Expo W it's there's no, no fence sitters, you know.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:18:22
Yeah, yeah, it's super interesting. There's a lot of things to pull out of what you just shared there, one being, you know, I think. We don't have the right vernacular to talk about this, but like what's the most regenerative or what's whatever like Bison's got to be up there or #1 especially for that that ecology that we're talking about in that region because they are the keystone species and if managed appropriately like we just know they should be there and they should be providing these ecosystem services that create these outcomes. It's been super fun. You know, we we kind of talked about it with Phil, that wild idea. We've talked about it with Robbie, a little bit of force of nature and now you and like so couldn't be more fans of that. You know, whether something could be regenerative or not probably comes down to what your definition of the word is, which is also highly contentious. But yeah, I think sure, the point you're trying to drive home here is like how do we eat, How do we eat species appropriate food? How do we put species appropriate food on land bases that make sense, right. And then how do we steward whatever that food is appropriately? And and that's what we're all about. And there's there's different ways to do that and I and I would even say.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:18:59
The thing I'm looking forward to in the future is like how do we stack those foods? So how do we put multiple of those return of ingredients into a dish or into like how do we, how do we create things? Like I feel like with what you guys have done with the ready to eat items that are easily consumable because convenience right, is not going anywhere. The fact that people are going to buy the majority of their foods at the grocery store aren't going anywhere, which was which is like hey. The most regenerative world we could live in is us going out and bow hunting for some bison and then, you know, cooking it on the open fire massive grill that Y'all created on the ranch. But it's probably not super realistic. So like, what's the given the constraints, what's the best way to create that change? Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:19:53
So talk to us about product development, right, because I know y'all, y'all sell some fresh cuts, not really under the brand. I think it's direct to consumer, more so still under the brand. But then you you have like the jerky product and you have the ready to eat product. So as you were a rancher, why did you feel like you needed to have a brand? Why these products like just talk through us through that commercialization process?

Jon Sepp - 0:20:31
Yeah, absolutely. It's a great question and segue. As a rancher, why do you need to have a brand? And I'll tell you because when I first started and there's a struggle of how do you make this more available, right. It's this goes back to your their first point how do you make this more available? There needs to be incentivization to do it. There's a lot of extra work that goes into it. There's a lot of extra thought that goes into it as opposed to just fencing and kicking animals out and taking them in at the end of the year, right? It's there's a lot more to it. You have to invest yourself in it, want to live the lifestyle, but you can't do it for free. And this is already a low margin industry raising animals. I view it as a service industry in the United States and one of those brands who I won't point out, who I'll mention, I won't mention who they are that you said you'd talk to.

Jon Sepp - 0:20:51
Was a brand that would take the work that you are doing and make it their own and keep all of the profit and then and then grow so large that they would have to start like sacrificing. And so I was doing a lot of extra work. I might have had a neighbor doing no work. We got paid the same at the end of the day. But ultimately those brands kept all the money regardless whether they were doing the right thing or not.

Jon Sepp - 0:21:19
Yeah. And what what really struck A chord with me to create a brand with Brittany was seeing that process become transparent, getting closer to the end consumer, which the Internet has allowed us to do. You know, before I didn't even have Internet out here until a few years ago. I still don't have and I use Starlink, right? Yeah, I don't have, I don't have cell phone reception on the ranch. And so when you're far.

Jon Sepp - 0:21:47
Away from people, you're far away from consumers. It's hard for people that are raising animals to make those links. And so we, I finally was able to make those links. We went to some events, we were able to get in front of some consumers and then I kind of saw the brand industry and. I'm not going to say it's dirty, but it's dirty. There's dirty.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:22:36
Elements you can you can say it CPG.

Jon Sepp - 0:22:39
It's dirty, I mean.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:22:40
It's like most industrialized industries. We have massive problems in it for sure.

Jon Sepp - 0:22:44
Yeah. And so we felt like in that there's also a massive opportunity to create a beacon that's what's missing and the consumer sees that too. I mean yeah, they're the consumer is incredibly smart and underestimated by a lot of brands too that agree that individual, that individual. Cares more about what they put in their body then probably the guy that makes a small amount of extra profit. That's the truth. And so they will hunt to the ends of the earth to find the right thing. And that's where our brand sits and where we created it to sit is with the the consumer that really cares. They're really going to investigate. They're really going to be interested. They want the absolute best that they can find and they want to know that that's real, that it's honest, that what they're getting is, is what they're.

Jon Sepp - 0:23:04
Buying and what they're being sold. And so we that's why we created a brand was to capture that to serve people better and to stop giving away the margin for all of our hard work and and keep that within ourselves. And it's been great. You know it's been a really good process that's been fulfilling on all ends. You know our consumer appreciates that more. It doesn't let us grow as fast.

Jon Sepp - 0:23:32
We're not as able to, not quite able to go as as quickly as wide with our products as we'd like to, right. But in in our opinion the long approach, the steady approach to building the steady beat to building a true authentic brand that will stand the test of time is the path that we're on and and so that's that's our trajectory that we're trying to take.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:24:19
Yeah, love that. And why, why the value added products, right? You could have just sold the meat, right? You could have sold the cuts, you could have sold grounds, you could have sold a direct consumer retail and you do some of that right. But you've really invested in building these, these value added products, margin expansion like what was what was the play there?

Jon Sepp - 0:24:37
Yeah, both. And yeah, margin expansion as well as as the ability to control, you know again as soon as you the further horizontal you get in a business like this, the less. Control you can have on it and then your business becomes less valuable and less authentic. And so when you give up that control or you don't, you're not able to structure it appropriately to a larger business. As time moves on to help either Co pack in a bigger way or source in a bigger way, etc. You you sacrifice a lot and the person that ends up losing at the end of the day is the consumer and ultimately the brand too, because they'll figure that out so. It's just not a path. We want it. We wanted to take. But you know, I don't know. Did that answer it for you or Yeah, I was trying to to think through that.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:25:28
Yeah. No, that makes total sense. And curious why these specific products, were they just things, you know, what is the products? Yeah, like what? Yeah, what was the, yeah.

Jon Sepp - 0:25:38
Again, I mean that's goes into the strategy of of you know like you said kind of like regenerative. It can be contentious or you could say like it could have a lot of definitions. But really at the end of the day it's you're trying to do the best that you can in every moment there, right? Not everybody will agree on what that is, but that's the intention behind it. And so our products were strategically developed in that same, same, same manner, you know to match that is like what are the best products that we can create. And so when we sat down and honed what those were.

Jon Sepp - 0:25:46
In terms of like not just, it's not just the balance of what the USDA is telling you on excuse me, on the back of the box, right.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:26:20
Yeah, those.

Jon Sepp - 0:26:21
Those numbers mean nothing. And yeah, you know, they they mean something. But really, in the grand scheme of things, they don't. They don't detail the most important parts of food that people are most curious in, when you, like, get to such a level of of your eating of like, really speaking, Speaking of nutrient density. And then like how certain parts of recipes will interact with each other in that nutrient density delivery. And so we those the pat the the items we came up with like specifically our jerky to begin with when when we had first started that there is no such thing as a sugar free jerky, we were warned off from that so many times.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:26:58
Yeah.

Jon Sepp - 0:26:58
2000. 2016 or whenever that was, you know, then suddenly came on scene, Everybody found a way to do it and it's still difficult. We wanted to push for that because you know, adding sugar to a meat product like ruins the whole point of of eating it really.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:27:16
You know.

Jon Sepp - 0:27:17
Yeah. And so that that's why we started there with that product and the way that we were going to dry it out and say like it's shelf stable. You also have to consider all the aspects of a consumer's life. Is it convenient? Is it shippable? Is it? Can it, You know, Is it longterm? Shelf, stable? Does it taste good? Also, without these other products? You know, to help? Yeah, translate over into a better way of eating or help reinforce a way that they've chosen to eat that it's not miserable like I. We also don't just have to choke, choke down.

Jon Sepp - 0:27:24
Health food and there was a period that you know other bison companies have gone through where it was just like just choked down the health food and that's we did we felt like no there there's also opportunity there. It should taste good. So we had some very wellknown chefs, one of them Tom Douglas and a couple others up here in the Northwest area help us develop further recipes of of what we built to say it's healthy. But also hits the right taste buds in the elements and and that can be scientific as well in terms of just breaking it down. So we found recipes that fit all those things and that inspired what it was that we were doing. It was a more of a engineering, a backwards engineering approach than it was just a approach with feelings. We said this is what's going to match the consumer and help them eat the best and and serve serve the bison the best, you know the product.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:28:39
Yeah, yeah, I think that's that's awesome. And you know we've we've had a lot of conversations on the show around kelp lately and how to better commercialize that. And you know Pat, 12 Tides really said for a lot of people this is their first experience with kelp in his products and now we know you know we should be eating way more bison as a as a. As a country than we probably do beef, chicken, pork, but they probably lead, right. So some of your products are could be some people's first experience with bison. So they got it taste great, they got to have a great product experience or they they might swore off the whole, you know the whole category of bison based products.

Jon Sepp - 0:29:15
Yep, absolutely. And you see it like a large portion of our consumers or what I would call flexitarians, you know, I'm sure you're familiar with that term, but it's there's a lot. There was a huge vegan movement. Everybody's saying vegan is healthy, we're going to do this. And then their bodies started to breakdown. They and then they realized, actually I do need me, you know, yeah, this doesn't work for everybody. And but you can't just go hard on like I'm going to go eat a pound of bacon every morning, you're going to explode, right. And so and that's that's not good to do anyway, right. You know, everything in moderation. And so a lot of times they, through their research, they'll land on bison. That's like it's an easily digestible, extremely high nutrient count food. It is the most nutrient dense meat on the planet. Bison ISM, they gross, very large, but very slow.

Jon Sepp - 0:29:35
And so through all of that research, a lot of times they'll land on that. And you're right, we don't want it to be a bad experience. We want for that person to have good taste and be motivated to say, like, OK, here's a balance, here's the middle. And this is like the best of what I can do for me and and not not get rid of it right away. So yeah, yeah, we want to exceed that.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:30:27
Yeah. And I'm I'm really excited like Dr. Stefan Van Fleet just. Put out some more research around how grass fed grass finish pasture raised bison is like showing more nutrient nutrient density than feed lot finish bison. And there's all kinds of stuff like that happening in bison but also in other crops and and meats. And as that data starts to proliferate and we can tell that story to the consumer, I think that's going to be like a real key driver to this whole thing so. What what has that been like for y'all? Like you guys do a kick ass job on the Instagram, but like at retail or like how? How have y'all told this story to consumers and what's really drove purchase?

Jon Sepp - 0:31:06
Yes, social media is important. I think. Yes, we have a responsibility of jobs that we educate in every moment that we can. We reach consumers through that of course like electronically is the best way. We used to do a lot of demos and stores and talk to.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:31:20
People.

Jon Sepp - 0:31:22
But what I really think it comes down to is a point we touched on earlier is like the consumers becoming hyper smart and aware and they're finding it on their own. There's a lot of people that write about different, you know, diets in particular and like of course you'll always have fringes and extremists, but like, you know, the general center of of where you know people are always heading is this. Is high nutrient density, of course, moderation. And, you know, it doesn't always have to be in an extreme. And that's not to say that sometimes those things don't work for people, sometimes they do, But like.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:31:58
Fresh, clean, natural, low ingredient like those are trends that are.

Jon Sepp - 0:32:02
Going any wild wild, you know, lower chemical loads raised in greater in larger open settings. And then of course you can advance that all the way to saying a regenerative setting you know, which is well advanced beyond that. And then what are the health implications there of the animal and there for you that you're eating And so I think it's the consumer that is investigating that that is what you see is driving this. They are becoming aware and that's a good thing people are you know they obviously have noticed you know typically you'll it's it's this pattern that we see of people that end on bison they they have some issue in their life it could be. You know, the way they feel, the way they think, the way their body is reacting, They try all these different things, right? And they investigate and investigate and then eventually find something that's working. And a lot of times it's within those realms that we talked about and it's for them.

Jon Sepp - 0:32:45
Internalizing that, that's pushing, pushing this product. And so they hunt for it now, you know it's called, we call it a treasure hunt item. They come across it in the store, it's positioned correctly on the shelf. They know about it already because they've become you know, self aware that this is something that's going to benefit them. And then as long as the taste checks out, this is going to be something that they're going for. And so that's again where a brand sits is for those consumers that are self aware for you know like we we of course have lots of different.

Jon Sepp - 0:33:04
You know, targeted segments of consumers that will will look at, but really it's those that really care about their health. They're finding us at that point you just have to put yourself out there and be available.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:33:45
Yeah. I think especially right right now where we're at with everything, we're at that tip of the spear on the adoption curve, right. And so those are the people we have to go capture. And then I think as brands, we have to kind of cross pollinate among them so that they're supporting full regenerative grocery carts, right, or pantries. I want to circle back to the agronomy you you touched on it at kind of at a high level but like 2-2 questions we like to ask is and and I'll make them specific for you is how, how does the way that you raise your bison compared to maybe like conventional or feed lot finished bison in in that's that's that's available like how is Rome free bison different than regular bison. And then second question is how is raising bison different than beef and cattle and and that ability to kind of affect the ecosystem?

Jon Sepp - 0:34:32
Yep. So how are we different than like a traditional a feed lot guy a lot of ways. So primarily it's it's starting with your land base right. You know if a feed lot and and there's actually limits with bison and feed lots too It's not even like a bee feed lot that you might have driven by they call them free choice feed lots. You you actually can't because bison are a wild animal And this is getting into your second question. Sorry you can't. You can just pack them together and have them gain weight. Even if that was like a financial strategy that I'm just going to pump corn through them and put them standing shoulder to shoulder. Bison naturally don't want to, they won't. They won't gain. You lose money and so you need a lot more land. So to answer, how are we different? Because there are a lot of free choice guys out there that like supplement grains to build.

Jon Sepp - 0:35:02
The fat and the bison, what we call cover and that gives you greater poundage and therefore more money in your bank account at the end of the day when you ship them to a plant. What what differentiates us is we're not doing that obviously, right. It's only on pasture. It's and then not only that we have. You know I'll give you an example on one of our one of our ranches. There's multiple ranches we grow on. We have lease to known properties all over close to cut in satellites here that that I run. Yeah. You know a tip this ranch when I took it over from a conventional beef producer had probably 10 miles to 12 miles of fence on it in the time that we've taken this most recent ranch over I would say I would estimate there's.

Jon Sepp - 0:35:47
30 to 40 miles that we've built on it and completely rearranged the fence lines, completely rearranged water, completely rearranged weather and how you're going to treat weeds, completely rearranged grazing schedules. So for the time of year.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:36:32
And you can't, you can't run polywire with these animals. Like you can't run electric fence like you need hardcore fencing to manage the paddocks for bison, right? Or no?

Jon Sepp - 0:36:41
Well, also not true, right?

Anthony Corsaro - 0:36:43
OK.

Jon Sepp - 0:36:44
Let me get into that question too. OK. So yeah I'll just say like what what is what differential regenerative. And then I'll tell you about bison. But yes we do we do build hard fence it's only 42 inch high regular 5 strand high tensile electric fence. Now I I do put a current through there high enough to stop your heart, but that's they actually are so smart because they're wild animals they they only touch it once in their lifetime. They rarely touch it again. In the years that they're alive and that's all you need and that's the level of electricity that needs to to enter through them because they're highly insulated. So that they yeah, anything but but all that to say regeneratively, we also have like multiple monitoring stations that are verified through. The local college as well as an organization called Western Sustainability Exchange that we work with like monitors our carbon for us. So we participate in carbon programs with another company called Native Energy out here and we measure all types of things in the soil to see and also modify our grazing habits. It's a lot of additional work beyond just kicking them out. So like, what's your water infiltration?

Jon Sepp - 0:37:28
How many species do you have? Is there a change from last year? Are you grazing appropriate to your bloom cycles and like the whole ranch changes in elevation by about 3000 feet across the whole thing. So while you moving, moving your animals up and down the mountain at the appropriate times of the year, how are you isolating? What kind of water are they drinking? What's in their water? All of our all of our water is fresh. Spring Fred all the time. It's not left stagnant tanks. It's always moving.

Jon Sepp - 0:37:51
You know that reduces any type of parasite load that could be possible. Which also means that I don't have to use. I use no vaccinations, no dewormers in any of our animals. Ivermectin is a very common one you have to have. There's a lot of things you must give cows to keep them alive that you do not have to give bison.

Jon Sepp - 0:38:18
And there's a lot of misconceptions about bison, which we can get into, but but they do not need those things to survive. You know, they're incredibly capable animals on their own, whether it be calving sickness or just their ability to thrive. It's just optimizing those environments for them. And there's a lot of science that goes into that. So you were joking earlier, but yes, we've basically become fulltime veterinarians to understand, you see what what is going to be best for that. So we take all those things into account in consideration, their lives.

Jon Sepp - 0:38:38
You know there the space that they have, how we're rotating them, all those things. So all of that ends up with better grass, more carbon in the ground, higher mineral count in the meat, healthier animals with better calving and conception rates longterm and ultimately a better product that goes to the consumer. Could I, if I could give a percentage of like? A feed lot animal versus a regenerative animal, that's really hard to say. You know I I'm is it 100% better? Probably not. Is it 50% better? Probably yes. But there that's where I feel like the next science is going is to really detail true mineral, mineral counts to see what that is.

Jon Sepp - 0:39:28
We can see that in evidence of when people eat that way and how the ground behaves. But of course that's that's the future and that's what we're working into. And so just staying on that leading edge in front is the goal and the and the front mindset of our business, how we're raising bison. That's the main difference compared to conventional of. Listen, my great grandfather did it this way. I've got one fence. I've got nothing internal. Yeah, about their water. If they're alive when they walk out and they get on the truck, that's good for me because I get a check and I'm not trying to do too much more. It's already hard enough and it is, it is extremely hard And I it's not to. I do not put anybody down that's going to raise conventional either. Those all, anybody that's raising protein for a living.

Jon Sepp - 0:40:04
That is a hard life. I don't care whether you're doing it regeneratively or traditionally. It doesn't matter. You know, every person that's doing that deserves an enormous amount of respect. So we also don't. I'm not.

Jon Sepp - 0:40:26
I don't dissuade people even from eating feed lot beef, which I know it's like maybe a extreme diversion there too, but it's even eating feed lot beef is still better than being a vegan. So I would say say like whatever it is that you're going to do, have at least some meat in your diet and if that's what you can afford, it's still going to be better for you than no meat. So do your best there. But we have, we're all living on in a sliding, sliding area there, so.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:41:05
Yeah, there's. There's a lot of Gray there, right? We try to make everything super, super binary and there's a lot of false binaries out there. So I would agree we need to embrace a little more complexity. Yeah. When you go through the whole loot, whole list, it makes me think of two, basically three things. One, that's clearly a guy that that understands its craft and it's taken the time and put in kind of the the sweat, blood, tears to figure it out. Two, you know, is this like a.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:41:07
You need technical tools. Do you need a bunch more like human capital? Do you just need more time? Do you need like what? What has allowed you to be able to do these things successfully? That's that's the big one, really.

Jon Sepp - 0:41:46
Sleeping less, working more and then. And then also because anybody can sleep less and work more, I'd say, you know, it's something that we really care about and it's another pillar of our brand that we really, really do care about what we're doing. We care about feeding people well, feeding you know, treating the animal well and optimizing that. And when you you have fun and you're enjoying that and doing all those things that enables the process there. It gives you the motivation to make it through, right. It's it's what you care about is going to reinforce what's making it happen and so.

Jon Sepp - 0:41:50
Yeah, we care about it and that's that's what's helping us continue to do that. And you know, you see an extreme dichotomy in there of them say like a very, very large food company because I don't think I'm allowed to say names probably without them me but like those people don't care nobody there businesses, maybe they care a little bit, they care enough for a paycheck, but it's not something that personally interested interest them. This is like if you're interested in drawing. Drawing, you know, portraits and being an artist, you're going to care and invest yourself in that. This is.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:42:50
What we here?

Jon Sepp - 0:42:51
At invest in and that's what's making it successful is because we do and so that that drives everything that we're doing.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:43:00
Yeah. And it's it's very apparent and it's funny. Even at Expo W you can tell the booths where it's like that. That is very apparent, right? It's not, it's not hard to figure that out.

Jon Sepp - 0:43:12
Yeah and their care is different like large food companies their care is still with feeding people which is super noble great cause but they're but they're looking at using regenerative as a tagline to help sell more products And so yeah but the again the consumer this is This is why your podcast exists here you know is is there's people that are clearly interested in this topic and so they're somebody will see this somebody will research and investigate and you know that that. Flow of information will only continue to increase for those people that that really care to say what am I putting in me.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:43:46
Yeah, what, what's been the biggest like ROI in that suite? You mentioned a lot of things that Y'all do. Is it like, hey, I saw this really cool post that you guys did on Instagram. Is it we demoed the product at the store, is that we visited the ranch? Like what do you feel like really affects people the most and creates those like super fans that we need to buy more of these products?

Jon Sepp - 0:44:08
Gosh, that's a great question. I think it's come in all different ways. You know, I think it's just being having like genuine, genuine interactions with people always win whenever we demo answering their questions. Maybe it's for somebody, maybe it's not. But people want the real truth these days. They want an answer that's real and not just like a bunch of made-up crap. And so when you give them the truth, people respond well, even if it's the truth doesn't fit what they want. And we feel like that's helped a lot. That's created a lot of fans because.

Jon Sepp - 0:44:10
There's vegans that cheer for our brand. There's guys I'm friends with a lot of guys that don't feed lots. They cheer for our brand. They like that too, you know, And so they just want to know like, hey, are you doing your best to respect what you think is best for the consumer at the end of the day, which is what we're doing, Yeah, that wins consumers. And then of course, the biggest one, if I never get to meet them or they never look at our Instagram or never see the brand is just does the is the taste good, right. Is the taste winning. And like I said, that's again another huge.

Jon Sepp - 0:44:38
Important pillar, the brand that we started off with as we saw like there are some other buy some brands that were just garbage and they didn't own bison, they didn't understand the animal. It was just put it in front of the consumer and hope that they choke it down because it's got a good picture on the box. And then people did that for a bit, but it didn't stay, it didn't stick on the shelf, right. And so you got to win with taste first. Is it something that's going to feel good?

Jon Sepp - 0:45:06
And then can the rest of can it also be good? Right, so, but, but all decisions people make, 98% of decisions aren't logical. They're emotional and basic feeling. And so are you hitting those high points right there? But then can you also back it up and follow with the the important points that matter after that? And so yeah, start with, start with taste and work your way backward.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:45:55
Yeah, I feel like we're at a really interesting inflection point too. As you look at the consumer data that says, like millennials and Gen. Z's really care more about integrity and authenticity and transparency and they want to be marketed to by other humans, other people instead of buy brands like they don't trust brands, right. And so I feel like there's going to be a real cool pot of stuff going on there, just, you know, that we can take advantage of as regenerative brands individually and collectively.

Jon Sepp - 0:46:22
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And you'll see a new, I think it's great, it's a good movement There will be a new, it's provides a whole new area for you know kind of corporate responsibility to come back to creating foods where we really have gotten off track. There's nobody that that will not agree that we've. Gotten way off track producing foods even in the natural and organic space, you know which can sometimes be the worst offenders of like trashing people's health. And so right it opens that opportunity for people to start doing that again. It's super hopeful. It's really great. We're excited to be a part of that and you know like I it's it's good to be alive right now and see that happening.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:47:11
Yeah. You mentioned some product innovation that you can't share exact details with us. That's coming down the pipeline. What else does the future hold? Like what? What should we be aware of? What should people have their eyes peeled for? What's the future hold for for y'all?

Jon Sepp - 0:47:25
Yeah, We have a few more products that are coming out and I you know like that's probably on the brand side, some of the biggest stuff that we have coming up right now down the pipeline, some more recipes. Recipe formats just like formats in what in which we're using bison and then we also have you know personally on the ranch side to help connect further with the consumer we're building. We've been gosh, for two coming on three years or maybe it's two years have been building a experience for people to come to the ranch and so that would.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:48:04
Be.

Jon Sepp - 0:48:05
Soft launching this year and then full time launching this coming spring. So we'll have a lot of homesteads that we've rebuilt, old homesteads on the ranch we've taken.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:48:18
Out.

Jon Sepp - 0:48:18
Board by board over years really made them beautiful again. Link them all together. We have a lot of events we're going to be doing. We have a restaurant that we're building out on the property so people will be able to like eat different types of regenerative locally. And that's all launching, you know, between this fall and next spring. And so that's been a another huge uphill push of, you know, bringing the consumer one step closer to their food as well as just like you know, we see a lot of people. Using the excuse of getting close to their food to also have a vacation and you know it's it's like a work we call them like work patients, right. We've seen just like this phenomenon, this phenomenon grow through COVID. And so just being able to bring people closer to that process and show them things that matter to them is exciting for us because we're we're excited that they're interested in it and we look forward to sharing that with all the people that come out.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:49:17
Yeah, we can call it an education vacation. And yeah, I think we've seen the regenerative space, I think especially on the ranching side that things like that on on ranch on site like are so catalytic and creating consumers, but also just educating people to be more conscious consumers of other products as well, right. And to understand like you know, my family hasn't been in the food business for 100 years and my knowledge of. Basic ecology of like, growing animal foods was next to nothing before this journey of three years ago. So experiences like that I think are vital. And they also proved that the world is small, as in the guy who was my college quarterback, you know, is brothers with a friend of yours that has visited the ranch, which is just, you know, it's a small room and it's a beautiful thing.

Jon Sepp - 0:50:06
It is. And it's funny. He's actually Zach Sudfeld, who you're talking about, is coming here in, let's see, a week. Let's see, a week he's coming on the 12, so excited. He's coming for a week to the ranch and who knows, maybe he'll end up staying longer. We've just become good friends. And yeah, he was a, he's a a great example of, you know, somebody that was interested in the food, who clearly cares a lot about his health, being an NFL player that's now turned into kind of. You know, in in a way an advocate, but just a personal consumer and now a personal friend that like we really connect over some of these things that are, even though our lives are very far apart of him being a football player and me raising bison. There's so many similarities that we can bond over, you know, food, how we're growing it, eating it. And I will say we both love riding dirt bikes. So we're going on a huge dirt bike trip. We like doing a lot of wilderness stuff. So we'll be doing some of that when he's here, but yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:51:05
That's amazing. My, my favorite thing of that whole interaction, seeing it from afar, was he made that video of him and his two sons going to Costco to buy the products, right? And like that. That's what this is all about. And that was really, really cool to see. So shout out, Shout to Zach and Nate and the whole Sudfeld crew and Zach's wife Kara. Yeah, Jon, I'll close this with kind of like shift macro shift to the macro environment, right? We asked this question to, to wrap all the episodes up. How do we get Regen brands that 50% market share by 2050? How do we do that?

Jon Sepp - 0:51:40
Gosh, just consumers, you know, consumers have to be activated and and they are right, they have to care more, but there has to be a, you know, a catalyst for change and I think you see that catalyst clearly. Defining itself in degraded health. And so that's been at the top of, you know, a lot of people's interest level for years. But now like there's been enough research that people can do do something about it. And so how do you get it there? I don't think it's us, I don't think it's necessarily the brands that are doing it, it's the consumer, right. So it's them continuing to choose and us being available for them that as they continue to make those choices that were.

Jon Sepp - 0:51:55
We're being honest, we're educating in the right way. We're representing what our brands really are and and then allowing them to come and have that if that's what's going to fit their diet the best. But I I strongly believe and we've seen that shift and trends start that people continue to get smarter and so they you know with it, with advent of better tools Internet A I connectivity people will. When they continue to seek those things out more, so I think it'll be a much greater than 50% market share at some point I think is as many years down the road. It might not be called regenerative, but that same concept will become more honed and focused as time moves forward.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:53:08
Yeah, I agree. And you know, it's funny. Kind of paralleling it to. Why you did regen on the ranch was it was a, it was an imperative from the health of the business, right. We were trying to drive more profitability, more ability to operate this business and we have that with our bodies, right. And Kyle and I both kind of do this work mainly because of personal health stories that we have and I think that's that's got to be linking regenerative agriculture and regenerative brands to human health has got to be our our lead because. The climate story is awesome. The biodiversity story is awesome. All these other things that does I think are awesome, but they are never going to be as high on the the Mazals hierarchy of needs of I want my health and my family's health to to be better or be good or whatever.

Jon Sepp - 0:53:53
Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that the consumer comes first. They always will. I mean we're consumer nation and that's that'll win. But you know, they want the best too. So yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:54:03
Well said. Thank you for joining us my friend. This was awesome. Really enjoyed it.

Jon Sepp - 0:54:08
Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity and I'll tell Zach hello when he gets here for you.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:54:12
So sounds good. Thanks, Jon.

Jon Sepp - 0:54:14
OK. Thank you guys. Take care.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:54:19
For show notes, episode transcripts, and more information on our guests and what we discussed on the show, check out our website regen-brands.com. That is regen-brands.com. You can also find our Regen Recaps on the website. Regen Recaps take less than 5 minutes to read and cover all the key points of the full hour long conversations. You can check out our YouTube channel, Regen Brands Podcast for all of our episodes with both video and audio. The best way to support our work is to give us a 5 star rating on your favorite podcast platform. Subscribe to future episodes and share the show with your friends. Thanks for tuning into The ReGen Brands Podcast, brought to you by the Regen Coalition and Outlaw Ventures.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:54:31
We hope you learned something new in this episode and it empowers you to use your voice, your time, and your dollars to help us build a better and more regenerative food system. Love you guys.